EvoX10_scott

What do I need for a 4 point harness? Can I just get the harness and Install them or do I need a harness bar? I can't tell what people are doing

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

Depends on the specific harness. Do you have a harness in mind? If not, I would recommend something from Schroth especially for a 4 point as they have the ASM technology which make them far safer than a traditional 4 point which generally speaking isn't safe.

Also, why are you looking into harnesses in the first place? Personally I am using (on my VIII) the Schroth ProfiII ASM in conjunction with the Buschur Racing quick release harness bar but this is solely for auto-x. For daily driving duties I use my traditional 3 point seat belt and when I eventually venture into more track oriented stuff I will be looking into a roll bar of some sort to mount the harnesses as I do not think a harness bar is a good idea on track.

golgo13

iTrader: (134)

Listen to heel2toe, he knows what he's talking about.

mi2slo

Schroth Rallye 3 or 4 will work, like they said, why are you using it. This stuff is typically only good for auto-crossing. Not recommended for track driving though (as in road-courses)

EvoX10_scott

I am looking into for daily use as now but I am eventaully going to be ready for track use. If I were to get a 3 point harness what would I need? could I install them just with the stock seats and be good? Basically can I just buy the harness and be good or what?

dolson222

iTrader: (9)

Get a 3 point harness? Heel2toe said traditional 3point seat belt (the belt that comes stock with the car. As for a 4 or 5 point harnesses:

A 4 point harness can be used with your stock seats whrere the lower 2 belts connect to lower mounts on the floor (sorry that may have been obvious) which I believe can use the stock mounting points but heel2toe should confirm. The upper two belts pass through the openings in our seats and can be either set up to srtap to a harness bar (auto-x)/roll cage crossbar (technically should only be a race only vehicle) or can be mounted to canhor points somewhere in the back seat location. This mounting method should be within the correct belt angle described in the installation manual for that harness (typically no more than around 15deg below horizontal from the seat pass through) though many people anchor them to the rear seat buckle anchor points that come stock (read: probably doesn't meet the harness manufacturer's angle requirement to provide the right level of protection but is cheaper than doing it the right way)

A 5 point harness has an additional single vertical strap that passes between the legs and is mounted to the floor. This requires a seat with a slit or slot to accept the belt and likely (not positive on this) a fixed position seat to ensure the proper belt angles. This is typically used during real track driving and is likely required in a race series.

A 6 point harness is similar to the 5 point but uses 2 belts between the legs and is only likely needed in a full on competitive race car. Again the need for this will likelty be spelled out in the race series rules.

So can you just buy them and install them?

For a 4 point, yes but it may not meet the manufactuerers standards in provide the right level of safety. It may actually be more dangerous. A harness bar, high mounted rear seat mounting points or bolt in roll cage are desireable mounting options. Just specify how you want to mount them during the ordering process so the company sends you long enough belts or with the right mounting point attachments.
Fot a 5 or 6 point you will need more stuff.

Peter Tiebout

iTrader: (3)

I have been using the Schroth ASM 4 point in both the Evos for years at the AX and Track. I have had some issues with some of the tech peoples at different venues not accepting the 4-point but they are DOT approved. Without installing a cage or roll bar in the car the Schroth harness is the better option for securing the driver compared to the factory belts. I.M.O. But I haven't had the pleasure of testing crash results

Peter Tiebout

iTrader: (3)

Pic. with the seat out

dolson222

iTrader: (9)

As with Peter's example the ASM acronym is "Anti Submarining" tech, which is a system Schroth uses which allows a 4 pt to be used at more extreme mount angles and not be as dangerou. They are saying you can mount them to the stock locations and it is fine. This tech is proprietary and is an exception to the norm. You can read about it at schrothracing's webiste. Im not sure if Willans, Takata or any others have a system for this yet. There are also differeneces in street/DOT legal and for off road use only in the buckle latching system so ensure that also meets the uses for your car. An EMT responding to your overturned car (God forbid) needs to be able to instinctively unlatch the buckle. The expectation is that the latch has a clearly identified (colored and labeled) button style unlatching device.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

This made me lol

Anyway, back on topic...looks like there has been some good info shared in this thread which is great.

However, I hate to be that guy but here it goes. OP- do not get harnesses. Harnesses for daily driving doesn't make any sense whatsoever and can be dangerous not to mention completely impractical. If and when you start tracking your car, you can look into purchasing them but do not bother right now.

I'm not trying to be a dick so please don't take this the wrong way but why do you want harnesses in the first place? I think I already know the answer but I'll keep it to myself.

In my case I autocrossed for a couple years on the stock belts and then used a CG lock for a few years then and finally got harnesses this past year. I was getting thrown around while autocrossing and used to burn my knee on the side of my door from them rubbing. Im sure others can relate. Harnesses kept me tied tight to the seat and I no longer get thrown around.

However on that same note because you are unable to really move around things like merging into traffic would be next to impossible as you will not be able to check your blind spot.

golgo13

iTrader: (134)

Lots of other reading here:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...es-merged.html

When you start to mess around with safety equipment it's important to spend some time and do your research because stuff like this installed improperly can actually work against you, etc.

dolson222

iTrader: (9)

Or moving in reverse. The only alternative is to reverse then stop hook into the harness and move along from there. Any saftey you gained dealing with car rollovers etc would be outwighed by road rage incidents in parking lots. Haha.

And before the next comment comes in about being able to have both mounted in your car, one to use for each purpose, imagine how uncomfortable it would be. Yes your could swap them back and forth depending on your need but that sounds like more of a pain than I would be willing to deal with. Though you may be a more passionate (read: less lazy) man than I.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

I was just about to link that thread as there is a lot of good info in there. Harnesses are generally classified as safely items and as such needs to compliment the rest of the safety system.

In a stock car this "system" is the SRS, safety restraint system which incorporates the seats, seat belts and the air bags. They all work in unison. This is why the airbag is disabled when you are not buckled up as its very dangerous.

harnesses restrain you in your seat but generally speaking should be complemented with a proper race seat roll bar of some sort and a hans device or similar neck support product.

Now I guess I am sorta a hypocrite as Im just using my harnesses in conjunction with a harness bar but this is solely for auto-x. I would never use them on the street or on track as I don't feel it is safe. Once I start tracking my car I will invest if a complete safety system as that is the smart and wise thing to do. But remember I didn't invest in my harnesses to keep me safe while autocrossing but rather to keep me strapped in my seat.