kaj

iTrader: (60)

In regards to OP, he's kinda right. For DDing, anyway. Assuming he's using a reasonable alignment setting, they would feel soft (sounds like that's a given). I doubt OP will wanna run 3° of camber.

Roen

iTrader: (1)

Yea, but let's preface all statements, rather than just saying PSS is crap......no qualifier.

DD to someone would be different than DD to another. And besides, running that much camber on the PSS on it's harder compound might give the same tire life as a lower camber setting with another tire. So if someone was only concerned about mileage, and they realize they can run stupid camber on the PSS without ruining mileage, then at least they have this information before making a decision.

Napalm_Enema

That wasn't my intent, I was only intending to focus on the tire and how it felt compared to other options out there. And I don't think anyone that was looking for a tire that was 'close to the feel of stock' would be happy with that tire. Now perhaps they camber suggestions tone down that out of control sloppy feeling, but I'm not going to spend 1100 to find out lol.

I am also no suspension / alignment expert either, but know what I was feeling when driving the car and I've driven a lot of performance cars over the years with all kinds of tires. <shrug>

Roen

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I get that, but general statements about tires need to be clarified as to not give out a misleading impression.

hispanicpanic

What was your inflation pressure? Cause 30-32 will make a mpss feel like a used condom, which is the feeling i get from hearing you talk about them. Either way, the PSS is one of the best. Sorry you didn't have the patience to set your car up for them.

hispanicpanic

+11

Napalm_Enema

Ok this is getting silly.

I got the PSS's on there, took them to the best alignment shop I could find locally who set up the car perfectly. The tires were properly inflated, no question.

Now when I drove said car after that setup was in place, the handling characteristics were horrible as stated. Now I don't recall any notices up when I bought the tires, about needing some special camber settings to make them usable.

So I switched out the tires for the ones I currently have, and the performance and road feel was night and day. In a straight line over bumps the PSS felt great no complaints.

Throwing it through a turn or curve or rapid lane changes resulted in a rubber banding feel to the car as the ULTRA SOFT sidewalls gave way to the weight of the car.

I'm not going to spend 1100 to try them again with different camber settings, based upon that hands on experience. Maybe it comes down to me liking a stiffer sidewall, or maybe I drive my car harder than some do? Whatever the case, WITHOUT MODIFICATION to my alignment, when I switched my PSS out for the RA-11's, the car felt like it did when I had it with the stock tires on, and has felt great ever since.

I would highly highly doubt that someone running the PSS's vs. the stock Advan's or the tires I have now would be as fast around a track, or say that the car felt as good or better than the stock tires when running the PSS's.

I still stand by my assertion that those tires blow for the reasons listed above, and having owned them long enough to form said opinion.

Roen

iTrader: (1)

RE-11's.

Probably not driving harder than most either. I don't know of any alignment shop that can tell me the settings required for each of the newest tires that come out. They don't make their money that way, so they don't care. They'll just give a general setting for what is thought to work. The PSS probably needs -0.8 to -1.0 more than what the alignment shop recommended.

There were no notices, people found out through testing themselves, because they spent the time to do it. Those of us who researched it afterwards benefitted.

Proper inflation for DD is not the same as proper inflation for hard cornering, keep that in mind.

Use more inflation psi to stiffen up the sidewalls.

Bascially, you're saying the PSS doesn't work as a buy, install, and drive around without worry tire. That's true, no one says it is. It's terrible for factory recommended settings. I would never DD them with less negative than -3.0 in the front.

We're saying that the PSS is a good tire, once the car has been changed and adjusted to suit it.

PSS also destroy stock tires around a track when set up properly. Stock tires have great response, but lower ultimate grip. RE-11's should be faster, I've had that argument with HispanicPanic many a time about how the PSS are still a Max Tire at the end of the day. Nothing quite feels as responsive as the stock A13C, but my current tire offers loads more grip. I haven't made them chirp yet, and believe me I've tried.

I will say this about the PSS though. If you don't have coilovers with camber plates and eccentric bolts, don't bother getting them.

awhit17

iTrader: (6)

^ Thank you for putting the PSS in proper context instead of bashing them and saying they're minivan tires. The PSS is a fantastic tire, if it wasn't it wouldn't be OEM fitment on tons of BMWs, Porsches and Ferraris.....but it's also in a completely different tire class than something like the RE-11A. It gives up ultimate grip to tires like the RE-11A and sidewall response to gain tread life and some ride comfort. That said, it is leagues ahead of comparable treadwear tires when it comes to handling.

With the proper alignment they are probably the best tire for a daily driver who cannot afford to have something with a 200 treadwear.

hispanicpanic

I'll argue the part that people assume it has less grip because its a 300 tw tire. The outer compound of the tire is much softer and actually less than a 200 tw compound, part of the reason you can get even tire wear even with crazy camber on a PSS. A properly set up and aligned PSS, i'd argue, has more grip than a bridgestone. I say this because of all the STU cars i've ridden in autocrosses. My car is 300 lbs heavier than these built Subies yet can achieve higher levels of grip on my PSS. Tell me why that is? I say this from personal experience, but the PSS is behind ONLY the rs-3 and AD08-R in dry grip. This means a "max" performance tire beats out everything in the "extreme" category, aside from the hankook and yoko. And again, its not cause of magic, its really all down to the TWO different compounds used on the PSS, where the inner is harder (300tw) and the outer is softer (180 ish TW).

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...res-tested.pdf


I ask about tire pressures because the standard pressures tire shops fill to are 32 psi. Way too floppy for performance driving. Either way, ra-11's are'nt bad tires. They're just not the best. Glad they're working for you though.

hispanicpanic

Pretty much :/

Roen

iTrader: (1)

Will people stop saying RA-11.....that's a tire that doesn't exist.

awhit17

iTrader: (6)

This was true when the PSS was new, and when that test was run, however with the introduction of the BFG Rival, Dunlop ZII Star Spec and the Bridgestone RE-71 (that replaced the RE-11A), I think about all of the Extreme tires have a grip advantage over the PSS. They are still a great tire though, they would be my DD tire of choice for an Evo!

Roen

iTrader: (1)

That test also excluded the RE-11 in favor of the S-04 for some stupid reason.

awhit17

iTrader: (6)

Yeah who knows why, the car mags can have some interesting motives sometimes....either way the RE-11/RE-11A is now discontinued and has been replaced by the RE-71 which is apparently a grip monster