curse of the three diamonds
Jul 25, 2013, 06:36 AM
#1
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
curse of the three diamonds
So I washed my '11 gsr the other day and had to face my Xs ultimate fate...on the hood there is a section where my clear coat is starting to take wear and has begun the "peeling" process.
When I first got her in Dec. 2012 I kept her clean and waxed her all the time, paranoid of what was inevitably going to happen. Ive managed to keep her looking and feeling good but have always had a problem getting a nice coat of wax to stick to the hood. No matter how many times or how many coats of wax I throw on the hood its not smooth, my hand doesnt easily run across the paint but instead feels cheap...gritty almost, almost like there really isnt any paint or clear on it...the rest of the car after waxing is smooth as butter but for whatever reason the hood will not coat properly. I never wax her when shes hot and never in the sun, tired a small buffer (no cutting compound, Mitsubishis paint is WAY too thin for that) and I still wind up with a horribly unsmooth and somewhat dull looking surface.
Ive tried many waxes to which my favorite being Maguires cleaner wax...wth
Anybody else having this issue, maybe find a solution to protect my hood because wax just refuses to smooth to the surface. It was recommended to do a clay bar, been there and done that...no luck...
Any advice?
When I first got her in Dec. 2012 I kept her clean and waxed her all the time, paranoid of what was inevitably going to happen. Ive managed to keep her looking and feeling good but have always had a problem getting a nice coat of wax to stick to the hood. No matter how many times or how many coats of wax I throw on the hood its not smooth, my hand doesnt easily run across the paint but instead feels cheap...gritty almost, almost like there really isnt any paint or clear on it...the rest of the car after waxing is smooth as butter but for whatever reason the hood will not coat properly. I never wax her when shes hot and never in the sun, tired a small buffer (no cutting compound, Mitsubishis paint is WAY too thin for that) and I still wind up with a horribly unsmooth and somewhat dull looking surface.
Ive tried many waxes to which my favorite being Maguires cleaner wax...wth
Anybody else having this issue, maybe find a solution to protect my hood because wax just refuses to smooth to the surface. It was recommended to do a clay bar, been there and done that...no luck...
Any advice?
Jul 25, 2013, 07:44 AM
#3
Newbie
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Opti-Coat.
http://prodetailing.blogspot.com/201...l#comment-form
Have done it to 2 cars now. Amazing stuff.
And if you have a gritty feel after a wash and wax, you need to claybar the paint.
And you tried a small buffeR? What kind of "buffer?" And this crap about paint being way too thin for compound is not correct. It all depends on the aggressiveness of the compound and if you are using a DA/rotary etc.
You can successfully compound the paint with no ill effects, as long as you dont do it every 6 months and expect the paint not to wear down.
http://prodetailing.blogspot.com/201...l#comment-form
Have done it to 2 cars now. Amazing stuff.
And if you have a gritty feel after a wash and wax, you need to claybar the paint.
And you tried a small buffeR? What kind of "buffer?" And this crap about paint being way too thin for compound is not correct. It all depends on the aggressiveness of the compound and if you are using a DA/rotary etc.
You can successfully compound the paint with no ill effects, as long as you dont do it every 6 months and expect the paint not to wear down.
Jul 25, 2013, 10:05 AM
#4
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
My X is a PB...and as far as the buffer goes it was just a small 8"...cutting compound to restore the surface is a great method and while there are several different cuts you can get I wouldnt suggest it on a mitsu. I have an associate, not really a friends just some guy ive talked to, had a silver IX...used a cutting compound...fine grit...to refinish the trunk of his ride. Now the paint looked fresh and there was no peeling or fading but his trunk lid was almost identical to my hood as previously described. Long story short the compound almost stripped the clear, not because he didnt know what he was doing but because it was extremely thin. If our clear wasnt that thin then we wouldnt be known for paint issues in such short amount of time.
Ive tried the claybar and it just seems as if the clear is actually to blame and not ingrained road grime or dirt.
Ive tried the claybar and it just seems as if the clear is actually to blame and not ingrained road grime or dirt.
Jul 25, 2013, 10:09 AM
#5
factory paint wouldn't do that, it's pretty good paint. Thin, but not known to peel that I've ever seen. the hood had to have been repainted at some point with too much flash time in between the basecoat and clear 
So there's some sort of contaminate in between the two surfaces.
You can try a compound over it, but your best (and of course most laborious) option is to scuff down the whole hood or wetsand it, and shoot new clear coat over it
So there's some sort of contaminate in between the two surfaces.You can try a compound over it, but your best (and of course most laborious) option is to scuff down the whole hood or wetsand it, and shoot new clear coat over it
Jul 25, 2013, 10:52 AM
#6
Newbie
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You never answered my question.
1. What kind of buffer did you use? Some cheap one from Autozone? A flex? Porter cable? Rotary? All of these machines have different cutting properties and will affect how well your paint comes out and if you burned through your clear coat.
2. You didn't clay bar right. Unless there are visible nubs in your paint from a bad spray, then anything you feel is above service contaminants. Get a heavier grade clay bar than meguiars or mothers OTC and repeat.
3. If you are coming out with a dull surface it is because of two things. One is that your surface isnt perfectly smooth making the light hard to reflect right back at you and two you probably have swirl marks and scratches like a mothe****er since you are afraid to polish.
Go to autogeekonline.net, read the forums, purchase the right tools and product, and you can have a perfectly shiny and smooth surface.
This is my X after I decon washed it, clay barred it, then compounded it with a white foam pad on a PC 7424X at speed 6 with heavy pressure and 6 passes, then finished it with a gray pad and polish, speed 6, 4 passed with a finishing polish. Smooth as glass.
Compound used was Menzerna SI1500 and polish was Blackfire SRC Finishing polish. Overcast day so you cant see sun reflect on hood.
1. What kind of buffer did you use? Some cheap one from Autozone? A flex? Porter cable? Rotary? All of these machines have different cutting properties and will affect how well your paint comes out and if you burned through your clear coat.
2. You didn't clay bar right. Unless there are visible nubs in your paint from a bad spray, then anything you feel is above service contaminants. Get a heavier grade clay bar than meguiars or mothers OTC and repeat.
3. If you are coming out with a dull surface it is because of two things. One is that your surface isnt perfectly smooth making the light hard to reflect right back at you and two you probably have swirl marks and scratches like a mothe****er since you are afraid to polish.
Go to autogeekonline.net, read the forums, purchase the right tools and product, and you can have a perfectly shiny and smooth surface.
This is my X after I decon washed it, clay barred it, then compounded it with a white foam pad on a PC 7424X at speed 6 with heavy pressure and 6 passes, then finished it with a gray pad and polish, speed 6, 4 passed with a finishing polish. Smooth as glass.
Compound used was Menzerna SI1500 and polish was Blackfire SRC Finishing polish. Overcast day so you cant see sun reflect on hood.
Jul 25, 2013, 12:24 PM
#8
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Okay, I have used a clay bar on the hood and it did nothing.
I have used 3m Fine Cut before in the past and it worked wonders on all of my Jeeps and Mustangs I owned in the past but with my experience and witnessing first hand how "thin" the paint seems to be I am afraid to try it, now that the clear is beginning to peal (still in its early stages however it is there and under examination it is noticeable) it probably wouldn't be a good idea to use a cutting compound, but instead, strip it completely down to the base coat or just start from scratch.
There are no swirl marks on the hood, there are some on the roof and trunk lid, but are non existent on my hood. The hood has not been altered or re-painted...
Its really hard to describe exactly whats going on here, I want there to be some level of protection on the hood to slow if not stop the clear from deteriorating.
When you wax the surface, properly wax I should say, then you allow the luster of your base coat to shine...temporarily hiding blemishes on the clear and giving it that high shine and wet look. While not only making the surface look flawless, wax also provides a level of protection from road grim/dirt/UV radiation preventing undue wear and slowing the ever prevalent fade that occurs as the vehicle ages. The smooth and butter like feel on a freshly waxed surface is ideal and reassures its even distribution and protection; however, when I remove the wax from the surface of the hood my microfiber towel almost adheres to the surface....its like I never waxed it, I have to put effort into moving the cloth along its surface after the waxing is complete, my fingers without applying pressure cling to its surface and is unlike the feel of other sections of the car. Sure I know that wax is there, its feel is anything but smooth...the luster of the paint in comparison to other body panels after waxing is less than ideal and is noticeable under the proper conditions [i.e.] in a garage, parking deck, morning/afternoon...not under DIRECT sunlight and definitely not at a single glance.
Now, I would assume that because this condition is not present on the rest of the car that it might, and I say might, be related to the heat of the engine bay...wearing the paint and clear to an unmanageable level.
If I don't make an attempt to slow this process with the use of some miracle product then my hoods ultimate demise contains a peeling clear in the near future.
Oh, and subsequently...to answer your first question, the buffer that would be used to cut the surface is a rotary style buffer at a good friends, and highly recommended, body shop. To what brand or price this buffer is I have no idea, all I know is when I walk into one of the 4 shops its nothing but Matco and Snap-On tools...like DAMN!
I have used 3m Fine Cut before in the past and it worked wonders on all of my Jeeps and Mustangs I owned in the past but with my experience and witnessing first hand how "thin" the paint seems to be I am afraid to try it, now that the clear is beginning to peal (still in its early stages however it is there and under examination it is noticeable) it probably wouldn't be a good idea to use a cutting compound, but instead, strip it completely down to the base coat or just start from scratch.
There are no swirl marks on the hood, there are some on the roof and trunk lid, but are non existent on my hood. The hood has not been altered or re-painted...
Its really hard to describe exactly whats going on here, I want there to be some level of protection on the hood to slow if not stop the clear from deteriorating.
When you wax the surface, properly wax I should say, then you allow the luster of your base coat to shine...temporarily hiding blemishes on the clear and giving it that high shine and wet look. While not only making the surface look flawless, wax also provides a level of protection from road grim/dirt/UV radiation preventing undue wear and slowing the ever prevalent fade that occurs as the vehicle ages. The smooth and butter like feel on a freshly waxed surface is ideal and reassures its even distribution and protection; however, when I remove the wax from the surface of the hood my microfiber towel almost adheres to the surface....its like I never waxed it, I have to put effort into moving the cloth along its surface after the waxing is complete, my fingers without applying pressure cling to its surface and is unlike the feel of other sections of the car. Sure I know that wax is there, its feel is anything but smooth...the luster of the paint in comparison to other body panels after waxing is less than ideal and is noticeable under the proper conditions [i.e.] in a garage, parking deck, morning/afternoon...not under DIRECT sunlight and definitely not at a single glance.
Now, I would assume that because this condition is not present on the rest of the car that it might, and I say might, be related to the heat of the engine bay...wearing the paint and clear to an unmanageable level.
If I don't make an attempt to slow this process with the use of some miracle product then my hoods ultimate demise contains a peeling clear in the near future.
Oh, and subsequently...to answer your first question, the buffer that would be used to cut the surface is a rotary style buffer at a good friends, and highly recommended, body shop. To what brand or price this buffer is I have no idea, all I know is when I walk into one of the 4 shops its nothing but Matco and Snap-On tools...like DAMN!
Jul 25, 2013, 03:22 PM
#9
You never answered my question.
1. What kind of buffer did you use? Some cheap one from Autozone? A flex? Porter cable? Rotary? All of these machines have different cutting properties and will affect how well your paint comes out and if you burned through your clear coat.
2. You didn't clay bar right. Unless there are visible nubs in your paint from a bad spray, then anything you feel is above service contaminants. Get a heavier grade clay bar than meguiars or mothers OTC and repeat.
3. If you are coming out with a dull surface it is because of two things. One is that your surface isnt perfectly smooth making the light hard to reflect right back at you and two you probably have swirl marks and scratches like a mothe****er since you are afraid to polish.
Go to autogeekonline.net, read the forums, purchase the right tools and product, and you can have a perfectly shiny and smooth surface.
This is my X after I decon washed it, clay barred it, then compounded it with a white foam pad on a PC 7424X at speed 6 with heavy pressure and 6 passes, then finished it with a gray pad and polish, speed 6, 4 passed with a finishing polish. Smooth as glass.
Compound used was Menzerna SI1500 and polish was Blackfire SRC Finishing polish. Overcast day so you cant see sun reflect on hood.
1. What kind of buffer did you use? Some cheap one from Autozone? A flex? Porter cable? Rotary? All of these machines have different cutting properties and will affect how well your paint comes out and if you burned through your clear coat.
2. You didn't clay bar right. Unless there are visible nubs in your paint from a bad spray, then anything you feel is above service contaminants. Get a heavier grade clay bar than meguiars or mothers OTC and repeat.
3. If you are coming out with a dull surface it is because of two things. One is that your surface isnt perfectly smooth making the light hard to reflect right back at you and two you probably have swirl marks and scratches like a mothe****er since you are afraid to polish.
Go to autogeekonline.net, read the forums, purchase the right tools and product, and you can have a perfectly shiny and smooth surface.
This is my X after I decon washed it, clay barred it, then compounded it with a white foam pad on a PC 7424X at speed 6 with heavy pressure and 6 passes, then finished it with a gray pad and polish, speed 6, 4 passed with a finishing polish. Smooth as glass.
Compound used was Menzerna SI1500 and polish was Blackfire SRC Finishing polish. Overcast day so you cant see sun reflect on hood.
Basically I want to prepare my paint for opti-coat. Any steps you would include or skip?
Any other pointers? Thanks
Jul 26, 2013, 10:36 AM
#10
that's why there's no swirls and the clear coat is peeling off
it's not always a bad thing tho, I repainted my entire front bumper and lip on my GSR because of rock chips, not an accident. There might even be a paint warranty on it from whomever did the repair, probably for the dealership.
Jul 26, 2013, 10:45 AM
#11
When you wax the surface, properly wax I should say, then you allow the luster of your base coat to shine...temporarily hiding blemishes on the clear and giving it that high shine and wet look. While not only making the surface look flawless, wax also provides a level of protection from road grim/dirt/UV radiation preventing undue wear and slowing the ever prevalent fade that occurs as the vehicle ages. The smooth and butter like feel on a freshly waxed surface is ideal and reassures its even distribution and protection; however, when I remove the wax from the surface of the hood my microfiber towel almost adheres to the surface....its like I never waxed it, I have to put effort into moving the cloth along its surface after the waxing is complete, my fingers without applying pressure cling to its surface and is unlike the feel of other sections of the car. Sure I know that wax is there, its feel is anything but smooth...the luster of the paint in comparison to other body panels after waxing is less than ideal and is noticeable under the proper conditions [i.e.] in a garage, parking deck, morning/afternoon...not under DIRECT sunlight and definitely not at a single glance.
Now, I would assume that because this condition is not present on the rest of the car that it might, and I say might, be related to the heat of the engine bay...wearing the paint and clear to an unmanageable level.
If I don't make an attempt to slow this process with the use of some miracle product then my hoods ultimate demise contains a peeling clear in the near future.
Now, I would assume that because this condition is not present on the rest of the car that it might, and I say might, be related to the heat of the engine bay...wearing the paint and clear to an unmanageable level.
If I don't make an attempt to slow this process with the use of some miracle product then my hoods ultimate demise contains a peeling clear in the near future.
The rough surface you feel on the hood without wax is a sign of clear coat failure, and it's affected the whole hood. Either the clear coat was not mixed properly with activator, or, the spray gun had an air pressure drop at the tip during application. That causes clear to to not atomize properly, and leave an orange-peel texture. Over time, the UV and heat (as you detected) affects the thinner parts of the clear coat more than the thicker parts, causing excess wear and eventually, peeling. The other possibility is a contaminate between the basecoat and clear coat, but that's probably not as likely.
You can start by trying a 1500 grit wet sand of the entire hood, then a heave cut compound or Meguires correction compound. You need to remove/flatten the orange peeled clear coat to attempt to prevent peeling. Your best bet, however, is to block sand the entire hood down and get new clear coat sprayed.
Jul 27, 2013, 09:56 AM
#12
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
I love it when my worries that a respray is confirmed lol...I was really hoping that I wasnt going to have to take on such a project as I HATE painting! So my better option is to just replace the OEM with a carbon fiber...I wanted to just try a simple fix but its usually not that simple. My wife fell on my car a couple months ago and I have a nice elbow dent on the ridge near the passenger heat extractor. Even though she elbow dropped my car I was going to try and "overlook" it but if a respray is my fix then a new hood would solve the problems...
Ill give that wax a try to see what the deal is but of it doesnt work then ill go with plan B.
Ill give that wax a try to see what the deal is but of it doesnt work then ill go with plan B.
Jul 27, 2013, 10:03 AM
#13
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
hood
Picture of the hood.
I love it when my worries that a respray is confirmed lol...I was really hoping that I wasnt going to have to take on such a project as I HATE painting! So my better option is to just replace the OEM with a carbon fiber...I wanted to just try a simple fix but its usually not that simple. My wife fell on my car a couple months ago and I have a nice elbow dent on the ridge near the passenger heat extractor. Even though she elbow dropped my car I was going to try and "overlook" it but if a respray is my fix then a new hood would solve the problems.........
Hopefully this picture loads lol
Ill give that wax a try to see what the deal is but of it doesnt work then ill go with plan B.
Hopefully this picture loads lol
Ill give that wax a try to see what the deal is but of it doesnt work then ill go with plan B.
Jul 28, 2013, 09:24 AM
#15
I love it when my worries that a respray is confirmed lol...I was really hoping that I wasnt going to have to take on such a project as I HATE painting! So my better option is to just replace the OEM with a carbon fiber...I wanted to just try a simple fix but its usually not that simple. My wife fell on my car a couple months ago and I have a nice elbow dent on the ridge near the passenger heat extractor. Even though she elbow dropped my car I was going to try and "overlook" it but if a respray is my fix then a new hood would solve the problems...
Ill give that wax a try to see what the deal is but of it doesnt work then ill go with plan B.
Ill give that wax a try to see what the deal is but of it doesnt work then ill go with plan B.
I mean it's possible that it's not a repaint...but you've really analyzed it well and know what you're talking about, and I think it was a respray. Better that it's just the hood. If it was the whole car, you know you had a wrecked one. When it's just a hood, who knows. Probably rock chips or somone dropped somthing on it.