Endless Brakes for the CZ4A
#31
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#33
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you're absolutely right. I didn't read between the lines. just wanted to bring attention to the consistent annoyance. thank you for setting me straight.
#36
Unfortunately I have no objective data to compare Endless with those brands. Any comparison of calipers is extremely difficult as the main difference from one to the other is 'feel' which is impossible to measure. I can tell you that Stoptech and AP Racing make good products, but they are both kits made to a price, rather than engineered for optimum performance. I believe both companies only offer two-piece calipers where Endless offers both two-piece and monobloc calipers.
If you have been thinking about upgrading to the ultimate in braking for the EVO, now is the time to do it. Endless has the Mono-6 package on sale this month. You can take $600 off the front kit or $1200 off the full package. Both come with two free bottles of RF-650 fluid, the fluid used by BrawnGP and many other race teams. All Endless brake kits include your choice of Endless pads which have found huge success in endurance racing where the longevity of the pads is a huge advantage. For you, though, it means your buying fewer pads and saving money in the long run.
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Last edited by BPAuto; Aug 21, 2009 at 03:17 PM.
#37
Stoptech can be argued that it is made to a price but AP has both, cream of the crop and "somewhat affordable" options. And AP is more about optimum performance than price.
Another bit of information, AP probably has more monoblock calipers than 2 piece units. Take a look at what brand calipers are in F1.
Endless is an up and coming company with great product for the price but certainly not up to AP/Alcon/PFC/Brembo in terms of performance.
Again respectfully hope you dont take it in a destructive way.
#38
No disrespect but if you want to be the "brake guy" and not just a "brake sales guy" you should be more aware of you own field.
Stoptech can be argued that it is made to a price but AP has both, cream of the crop and "somewhat affordable" options. And AP is more about optimum performance than price.
Another bit of information, AP probably has more monoblock calipers than 2 piece units. Take a look at what brand calipers are in F1.
Endless is an up and coming company with great product for the price but certainly not up to AP/Alcon/PFC/Brembo in terms of performance.
No not really, weight to stiffness, flex, heat dissipation, abutment system and pad retraction, expanssion rates of the pistons vs the caliper body so that the pistons dont sieze or gaul the bores, piston cooling design - either vented caps or heat insolators, quality and shape of the seals to aid in retraction, etc, etc, along with many other engineering design reasons.
Again respectfully hope you dont take it in a destructive way.
Stoptech can be argued that it is made to a price but AP has both, cream of the crop and "somewhat affordable" options. And AP is more about optimum performance than price.
Another bit of information, AP probably has more monoblock calipers than 2 piece units. Take a look at what brand calipers are in F1.
Endless is an up and coming company with great product for the price but certainly not up to AP/Alcon/PFC/Brembo in terms of performance.
No not really, weight to stiffness, flex, heat dissipation, abutment system and pad retraction, expanssion rates of the pistons vs the caliper body so that the pistons dont sieze or gaul the bores, piston cooling design - either vented caps or heat insolators, quality and shape of the seals to aid in retraction, etc, etc, along with many other engineering design reasons.
Again respectfully hope you dont take it in a destructive way.
Patrick is currently out of town so I am covering the boards in his absence .
Thanks for the insightful feedback. I agree that there is a lot of science involved in the function and operation of brakes. Heating vs. cooling, drilled vs. slotted, monoblock vs. 2-piece, etc. There are many different variables to take into consideration.
Brakes may be more of your forte than mine so please feel free to share any brake knowledge you may have. I am sure that people other than just me would enjoy your reading material.
PM's replied/sent.
-Hunter
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www.bulletproofautomotive.com
The Real JDM - Interactive (blog)
Email: sales@bulletproofautomotive.com
Direct North American Dealers for Voltex, Mines, Varis, First Molding, HKS Kansai, Cusco, HKS, Advan, Volk, Ings+1, C-West, Work, and so much more...
#39
#40
In hindsight, I see that it sounded like I thought AP was a second-rate company. This is not the case at all as they are present in many of the highest levels of motorsport and I personally love their new Radi-cal designs.
It is also interesting to note that the SuperGT cars use Endless' off-the-shelf calipers, not some special version that is only available to race teams. The brake fluid that Endless supplies to F1 teams is also just off-the-shelf RF-650 fluid.
No not really, weight to stiffness, flex, heat dissipation, abutment system and pad retraction, expanssion rates of the pistons vs the caliper body so that the pistons dont sieze or gaul the bores, piston cooling design - either vented caps or heat insolators, quality and shape of the seals to aid in retraction, etc, etc, along with many other engineering design reasons.
That said, I did oversimplify things and I apologize.
Hopefully my response doesn't sound like I did take it in a destructive way. I do take these things very seriously. It's my job after all. But I'm not in any way upset about you bringing these things up as it gives me the opportunity to clarify some admittedly vague statements. Thanks for keeping me on my toes
I, in turn, hope that none of this comes across as offensive or insulting to you or anyone else on this board. I truly want to be helpful and contribute meaningfully to this board and I hope that is the message that I'm conveying.
-Patrick
__________________
"Let us help you build your JDM dream!"
www.bulletproofautomotive.com
The Real JDM - Interactive (blog)
Email: sales@bulletproofautomotive.com
Direct North American Dealers for Voltex, Mines, Varis, First Molding, HKS Kansai, Cusco, HKS, Advan, Volk, Ings+1, C-West, Work, and so much more...
"Let us help you build your JDM dream!"
www.bulletproofautomotive.com
The Real JDM - Interactive (blog)
Email: sales@bulletproofautomotive.com
Direct North American Dealers for Voltex, Mines, Varis, First Molding, HKS Kansai, Cusco, HKS, Advan, Volk, Ings+1, C-West, Work, and so much more...
#41
Evolved Member
iTrader: (25)
Endless is an up and coming company with great product for the price but certainly not up to AP/Alcon/PFC/Brembo in terms of performance.
No not really, weight to stiffness, flex, heat dissipation, abutment system and pad retraction, expanssion rates of the pistons vs the caliper body so that the pistons dont sieze or gaul the bores, piston cooling design - either vented caps or heat insolators, quality and shape of the seals to aid in retraction, etc, etc, along with many other engineering design reasons.
No not really, weight to stiffness, flex, heat dissipation, abutment system and pad retraction, expanssion rates of the pistons vs the caliper body so that the pistons dont sieze or gaul the bores, piston cooling design - either vented caps or heat insolators, quality and shape of the seals to aid in retraction, etc, etc, along with many other engineering design reasons.
As ferreira mentioned, the above suppliers are all well known top rated racing suppliers that money can buy.... but don't let F1 fool you. F1 likes to spend money its only an object. The more realistic comparison is on heavier vehicles that use iron disks and a system that needs to be cost effective, that is where the design of the brake components become challenging.
My buddy who works with me now worked for PFC for ~5yrs designing disks/calipers for F1, Indy, Sprint, cup....racing etc etc...
But back to the original topic, we have never tested Endless brake products so I can not comment on their performance comparison.
#42
As ferreira mentioned, the above suppliers are all well known top rated racing suppliers that money can buy.... but don't let F1 fool you. F1 likes to spend money its only an object. The more realistic comparison is on heavier vehicles that use iron disks and a system that needs to be cost effective, that is where the design of the brake components become challenging.
My buddy who works with me now worked for PFC for ~5yrs designing disks/calipers for F1, Indy, Sprint, cup....racing etc etc...
Hopefully my response doesn't sound like I did take it in a destructive way. I do take these things very seriously. It's my job after all. But I'm not in any way upset about you bringing these things up as it gives me the opportunity to clarify some admittedly vague statements. Thanks for keeping me on my toes
I, in turn, hope that none of this comes across as offensive or insulting to you or anyone else on this board. I truly want to be helpful and contribute meaningfully to this board and I hope that is the message that I'm conveying.
-Patrick
I, in turn, hope that none of this comes across as offensive or insulting to you or anyone else on this board. I truly want to be helpful and contribute meaningfully to this board and I hope that is the message that I'm conveying.
-Patrick
#43
Thanks. That really means a lot to me.
-Patrick
-Patrick
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"Let us help you build your JDM dream!"
www.bulletproofautomotive.com
The Real JDM - Interactive (blog)
Email: sales@bulletproofautomotive.com
Direct North American Dealers for Voltex, Mines, Varis, First Molding, HKS Kansai, Cusco, HKS, Advan, Volk, Ings+1, C-West, Work, and so much more...
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