View Poll Results: Which would you choose for a DD with some track duty?
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll
Recommend Me Springs Swift vs. WORKS ...
May 13, 2009, 10:06 PM
#17
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There's a reason why Works has the same drop front and rear - that's to maintain the stock rake of the car. In stock form the front is actually lower than the rear if you measure under the car. With the Swifts, you're now increasing the rake in the front more than stock and that will negatively affect your handling if you plan on driving aggressively. Get a roll center adjustment kit or cancel your order and get the Works. Or if you care more for looks than performance, then you made the right choice!
BTW, IIRC, Works actually helped Swift with their engineering of the VIII and XI springs...
BTW, IIRC, Works actually helped Swift with their engineering of the VIII and XI springs...
May 14, 2009, 06:41 AM
#18
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interesting, do you actually have proof that work helped swift?
also did you measure the under car before and after works springs install(settling and alignment) and confirm that the rake was preserved?
also did you measure the under car before and after works springs install(settling and alignment) and confirm that the rake was preserved?
There's a reason why Works has the same drop front and rear - that's to maintain the stock rake of the car. In stock form the front is actually lower than the rear if you measure under the car. With the Swifts, you're now increasing the rake in the front more than stock and that will negatively affect your handling if you plan on driving aggressively. Get a roll center adjustment kit or cancel your order and get the Works. Or if you care more for looks than performance, then you made the right choice!
BTW, IIRC, Works actually helped Swift with their engineering of the VIII and XI springs...
BTW, IIRC, Works actually helped Swift with their engineering of the VIII and XI springs...
May 14, 2009, 07:13 AM
#19
I HIGHLY doubt Works helped Swift on their springs....they were developed in Japan. They don't need engineering help anyway. I don't mean that in any negative way towards anyone, but seriously....Swift has been making springs for a LONG time. That's almost funny to me.
- Andrew
- Andrew
Last edited by GTWORX.com; May 14, 2009 at 07:17 AM.
May 14, 2009, 07:15 AM
#20
There's a reason why Works has the same drop front and rear - that's to maintain the stock rake of the car. In stock form the front is actually lower than the rear if you measure under the car. With the Swifts, you're now increasing the rake in the front more than stock and that will negatively affect your handling if you plan on driving aggressively. Get a roll center adjustment kit or cancel your order and get the Works. Or if you care more for looks than performance, then you made the right choice!
BTW, IIRC, Works actually helped Swift with their engineering of the VIII and XI springs...
BTW, IIRC, Works actually helped Swift with their engineering of the VIII and XI springs...
I would be actually willing to bet that the car would have less understeer with the Swift springs than the WORKS springs. But that's my thinking.
May 14, 2009, 07:49 AM
#22
The rake thing can be a bit overblown IMO for a couple of reasons:
1. Dropping the car .5 inches front and rear doesn't necessarily mean you'll have the same rake or roll axis as stock. The front and rear roll centers don't drop at the same rate.
2. We were pretty happy with dropping the car a tiny bit more up front with the EVO 8 and 9. And STI.
It CAN help the car turn....if done right. Too low up front is a huge problem because of both geometry and strut travel, so you have to look at the complete picture with spring rates. The springs that drop the car 2 inches front 1 inch rear are laughable because of a lot of reasons....not just rake.
i really want to make functional performance springs for the x!
- andrew
1. Dropping the car .5 inches front and rear doesn't necessarily mean you'll have the same rake or roll axis as stock. The front and rear roll centers don't drop at the same rate.
2. We were pretty happy with dropping the car a tiny bit more up front with the EVO 8 and 9. And STI.
It CAN help the car turn....if done right. Too low up front is a huge problem because of both geometry and strut travel, so you have to look at the complete picture with spring rates. The springs that drop the car 2 inches front 1 inch rear are laughable because of a lot of reasons....not just rake.
i really want to make functional performance springs for the x!
- andrew
May 14, 2009, 07:51 AM
#23
Most race cars have a rake setup to bias the front. This provides more weight to the front, during braking and turning. Now we know the that the EVO X is heavier then the previous model and that it is also taller, wider, and has a stiffer chassis.
I would be actually willing to bet that the car would have less understeer with the Swift springs than the WORKS springs. But that's my thinking.
I would be actually willing to bet that the car would have less understeer with the Swift springs than the WORKS springs. But that's my thinking.
Here's a good thread on the topic:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...bout-rake.html
- Andrew
May 14, 2009, 02:40 PM
#24
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I HIGHLY doubt Works helped Swift on their springs....they were developed in Japan. They don't need engineering help anyway. I don't mean that in any negative way towards anyone, but seriously....Swift has been making springs for a LONG time. That's almost funny to me.
- Andrew
- Andrew
As for measuring under the car, Works did measure and found the front to be around 3/4" (I think - don't remember the exactly number) lower than the rear.
All this came to be because I was asking them if they'd sell me a mix set of 0.9" springs for the front and 0.5" springs for the rear. While they agreed to do it as a one off, they recommended against it if I drove the car aggressively.
Look at it this way, it wouldn't be hard or any more costly for Works to develop lower front springs so there's obviously a reason why they didn't. They're a reputable company who's known for doing solid R&D on their suspension and chassis parts. They even have different springs for the GSR vs MR and if they'd go through that process to develop 2 spring sets where most companies only have 1, don't you think they would have developed a lower front spring if it performed better? I'm not sure if Swift has this, but the Works are progressive rear springs to work better with the AYC system.
Just food for thought.
Hope that clarifies things.
Last edited by 93HardTopTurbo; May 14, 2009 at 03:38 PM.
May 14, 2009, 04:14 PM
#25
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Just called Swift and both their front and rear springs are progressive. I don't recall why Works didn't make the fronts progressive but there was a good reason when I spoke with them about it. Call Works and ask for Pete and he'll explain it to you.
I asked the Swift rep why they only make 1 set of springs for both the X GSR and MR and his response was because the struts are "very similar" and they didn't feel the need to develop 2 sets of springs. Well, apparently Works doesn't feel that "very similar" is good enough that's why they have 2 springs sets for the MR and GSR and they're not charging more money for them so there's no cost recovery on their end. IMHO, that speaks volumes.
I'm no suspension guru and I don't work for Works - hell, I don't even have their stuff on my car. I'm just trying to share what little knowledge I have.
Cheers.
P.S. - the guy at Swift seems to recall that they did with collaborate with Works a long time ago (makes sense since it was for the VIII and IX).
I asked the Swift rep why they only make 1 set of springs for both the X GSR and MR and his response was because the struts are "very similar" and they didn't feel the need to develop 2 sets of springs. Well, apparently Works doesn't feel that "very similar" is good enough that's why they have 2 springs sets for the MR and GSR and they're not charging more money for them so there's no cost recovery on their end. IMHO, that speaks volumes.
I'm no suspension guru and I don't work for Works - hell, I don't even have their stuff on my car. I'm just trying to share what little knowledge I have.
Cheers.
P.S. - the guy at Swift seems to recall that they did with collaborate with Works a long time ago (makes sense since it was for the VIII and IX).
Last edited by 93HardTopTurbo; May 14, 2009 at 04:18 PM.
May 14, 2009, 07:03 PM
#26
No they don't. The Works springs are the same for the MR and GSR. I have the Works springs and although I have not compared the ride and handling back to back with other springs (who has?) I do like Works products. Their are very active in racing and they have an in house shock dyno. I think the drop is just right and I really like the ride too, although I have Bilsteins.
May 14, 2009, 10:34 PM
#27
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No they don't. The Works springs are the same for the MR and GSR. I have the Works springs and although I have not compared the ride and handling back to back with other springs (who has?) I do like Works products. Their are very active in racing and they have an in house shock dyno. I think the drop is just right and I really like the ride too, although I have Bilsteins.
With our in-house shock dynamometer, we matched the Ride Springs to both sets of factory shocks/struts (KYB of the GSR and Bilstein of the MR to follow).
The MR springs have been available for some time. Unless both Pete and their sales guy blatantly lied to me and were planning on selling me GSR springs.
May 15, 2009, 07:20 AM
#28
Really... when was the last time you called and checked? I talked to Pete less than a month ago. From their site:
With our in-house shock dynamometer, we matched the Ride Springs to both sets of factory shocks/struts (KYB of the GSR and Bilstein of the MR to follow).
The MR springs have been available for some time. Unless both Pete and their sales guy blatantly lied to me and were planning on selling me GSR springs.
With our in-house shock dynamometer, we matched the Ride Springs to both sets of factory shocks/struts (KYB of the GSR and Bilstein of the MR to follow).
The MR springs have been available for some time. Unless both Pete and their sales guy blatantly lied to me and were planning on selling me GSR springs.
May 15, 2009, 07:25 AM
#29
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I know you're doing a comparison between these two spring sets, but mind if I ask why you ruled out Eibach. I'm having a hard time choosing between the 3 myself.