Fortune Auto??
Jul 24, 2011 | 07:22 PM
#121
Re track use: most people here use the car for both dd and track. Especially those who are going to be worried about only being able to spend $1500 on coilovers. How reasonable is it to assume such a person has 30k to blow on a stripped out race car and have another DD?
For DD car, not hearing the springs everytime they compress is a goodthing as is having struts that perform well and still livable on the street.
If I were going to have a dedicated track car, I still wouldnt buy these, I would do what the serious guys do here and go for high end ASTs or JRZs and I would go with Vorslag camber plates. If you don't have a car with all but the drivers seat taken out, the carpets , ceiling and door liners pulled , the radio gone etc the. You aren't doing at the level you refer to or if you are you aren't doing it right..which is my point.
The right way is using best qualit parts available
For DD car, not hearing the springs everytime they compress is a goodthing as is having struts that perform well and still livable on the street.
If I were going to have a dedicated track car, I still wouldnt buy these, I would do what the serious guys do here and go for high end ASTs or JRZs and I would go with Vorslag camber plates. If you don't have a car with all but the drivers seat taken out, the carpets , ceiling and door liners pulled , the radio gone etc the. You aren't doing at the level you refer to or if you are you aren't doing it right..which is my point.
The right way is using best qualit parts available
Jul 24, 2011 | 08:25 PM
#122
I am not a heavy road racer but I do autox twice a month. Just took 2nd place today in Street Modified on my "garbage coil overs". I was shy of .5 which would have been avoided had I missed one of the last slalom cones.
Jul 24, 2011 | 09:33 PM
#123
Jul 24, 2011 | 09:55 PM
#124
Somewhere (I think it was this thread), I wrote that cheaper coilovers with stiffer than **** springs sometimes seem to do well at autocross. Not saying this is what you have just making a point that you can; judge them for quality just because they do well in autocross...what about the drive home? Different track conditions etc.
Actually, I have a hard time judging parts in general on local autocross success alone. Admittedly, I have only been to a few (my experience is in other forms racing) but the difference in driver ability was pretty wide. Also, everyone is on different tires at different stages of wear (I know from experience that this can be seconds worth of difference), very different cars in the same class, you never know what the guy actually has in the motor and, regardless of equipment, if they know what they are doing with what they have (IE tire pessures, sway settings, spring choice, etc). I would almost have to drive the cars before the event to decide what was actually going on.
That is the way it is with all local racing and sometimes even regional level racing. Always have someone with OK talet but a huge wallet that wins, a few idiots who are always trying to cheat themselves into a win, some guy with a shoestring but ***** and talent the size of a truck who wins or does well when they should not and then a few with both talent and some money and sense that usually do well, stay around for a while and move up to better things. But you have to watch for a while to see whats what and to figure out what equipment is actually worth having.
After almost 10 yrs in serious racing (a while back now), I am trained to trust no one other than a stopwatch when it comes to equipment and that is if I know the quality of the competition. When I first started, I tried everything that I was told would make me faster...most of it was wrong. Some was because the person telling me did not know better, sometimes they wanted to sell me something, sometimes they were just trying to slow me down.
All that said (and to bring it back to the point of all this), I don't want my daily driver to be a racecar. I would like it to be a competent track car and for the changes like coilovers I make to make it faster but not an out and out race car. They are noisy, uncomfortable and unreliable over time ("the perfect racecar should fall apart when it crosses the finish line-Colin Chapman")...all things that are not important and you don' t noticeor even care about (at least most of the time) when you are actually racing but become very obvious when you leave the track and not what most here really want even if they feel the peer pressure to say they do.
Last edited by jimm; Jul 24, 2011 at 09:58 PM.
Jul 25, 2011 | 04:53 AM
#125
Congrats.
Somewhere (I think it was this thread), I wrote that cheaper coilovers with stiffer than **** springs sometimes seem to do well at autocross. Not saying this is what you have just making a point that you can; judge them for quality just because they do well in autocross...what about the drive home? Different track conditions etc.
Actually, I have a hard time judging parts in general on local autocross success alone. Admittedly, I have only been to a few (my experience is in other forms racing) but the difference in driver ability was pretty wide. Also, everyone is on different tires at different stages of wear (I know from experience that this can be seconds worth of difference), very different cars in the same class, you never know what the guy actually has in the motor and, regardless of equipment, if they know what they are doing with what they have (IE tire pessures, sway settings, spring choice, etc). I would almost have to drive the cars before the event to decide what was actually going on.
That is the way it is with all local racing and sometimes even regional level racing. Always have someone with OK talet but a huge wallet that wins, a few idiots who are always trying to cheat themselves into a win, some guy with a shoestring but ***** and talent the size of a truck who wins or does well when they should not and then a few with both talent and some money and sense that usually do well, stay around for a while and move up to better things. But you have to watch for a while to see whats what and to figure out what equipment is actually worth having.
After almost 10 yrs in serious racing (a while back now), I am trained to trust no one other than a stopwatch when it comes to equipment and that is if I know the quality of the competition. When I first started, I tried everything that I was told would make me faster...most of it was wrong. Some was because the person telling me did not know better, sometimes they wanted to sell me something, sometimes they were just trying to slow me down.
All that said (and to bring it back to the point of all this), I don't want my daily driver to be a racecar. I would like it to be a competent track car and for the changes like coilovers I make to make it faster but not an out and out race car. They are noisy, uncomfortable and unreliable over time ("the perfect racecar should fall apart when it crosses the finish line-Colin Chapman")...all things that are not important and you don' t noticeor even care about (at least most of the time) when you are actually racing but become very obvious when you leave the track and not what most here really want even if they feel the peer pressure to say they do.
Somewhere (I think it was this thread), I wrote that cheaper coilovers with stiffer than **** springs sometimes seem to do well at autocross. Not saying this is what you have just making a point that you can; judge them for quality just because they do well in autocross...what about the drive home? Different track conditions etc.
Actually, I have a hard time judging parts in general on local autocross success alone. Admittedly, I have only been to a few (my experience is in other forms racing) but the difference in driver ability was pretty wide. Also, everyone is on different tires at different stages of wear (I know from experience that this can be seconds worth of difference), very different cars in the same class, you never know what the guy actually has in the motor and, regardless of equipment, if they know what they are doing with what they have (IE tire pessures, sway settings, spring choice, etc). I would almost have to drive the cars before the event to decide what was actually going on.
That is the way it is with all local racing and sometimes even regional level racing. Always have someone with OK talet but a huge wallet that wins, a few idiots who are always trying to cheat themselves into a win, some guy with a shoestring but ***** and talent the size of a truck who wins or does well when they should not and then a few with both talent and some money and sense that usually do well, stay around for a while and move up to better things. But you have to watch for a while to see whats what and to figure out what equipment is actually worth having.
After almost 10 yrs in serious racing (a while back now), I am trained to trust no one other than a stopwatch when it comes to equipment and that is if I know the quality of the competition. When I first started, I tried everything that I was told would make me faster...most of it was wrong. Some was because the person telling me did not know better, sometimes they wanted to sell me something, sometimes they were just trying to slow me down.
All that said (and to bring it back to the point of all this), I don't want my daily driver to be a racecar. I would like it to be a competent track car and for the changes like coilovers I make to make it faster but not an out and out race car. They are noisy, uncomfortable and unreliable over time ("the perfect racecar should fall apart when it crosses the finish line-Colin Chapman")...all things that are not important and you don' t noticeor even care about (at least most of the time) when you are actually racing but become very obvious when you leave the track and not what most here really want even if they feel the peer pressure to say they do.
Where the performance starts is the high speed - bumpy - or road courses / tracks.
Or the every day driving.
Jul 25, 2011 | 07:28 AM
#126
Unless, of course, you are setting the car up for autocrossing.
Actually, go-karts don't have coilovers because most forms of go-kart racing, all the way up through shifter-karts, do not allow any suspension at all.
Actually, go-karts don't have coilovers because most forms of go-kart racing, all the way up through shifter-karts, do not allow any suspension at all.
Jul 25, 2011 | 08:42 AM
#128
Yeah, I participated in the FA Dreadnaught thread, too. If you ignore the fact that FA advertizes them as being compression adjustable when the plot clearly shows that the bleeder only really alters rebound, then, yes, those are nicely digressive, which is a huge step forward for Taiwan-sourced stuff. However, before anyone starts comparing them to Bilsteins, we need to see the non-averaged plots, as Touge and I asked for, since FA has a history of rather bad hysteresis; we know that Bilstein does not.
Last edited by Iowa999; Jul 25, 2011 at 08:54 AM.
Jul 25, 2011 | 10:53 AM
#129
Some what OT....we actually tried a suspension of sorts when I was running karts. We replaced the different numbers metal king pin washers with different thickness and density rubber bushings with varying degrees of success. seemed to help a little on turn in on bumpy tracks but did not help putting the power down or curb hopping.
Jul 25, 2011 | 01:30 PM
#130
Kart racing is not the same as autox. They are used for both. We actually had two karts at the event but at this track they have a kart road course track. You are out of your mind if you are telling me suspension doesn't play a big role in autox. Go tell that to those guys running nationals.
This was my fastest lap of the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Lb4lHMjAg
This was my fastest lap of the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Lb4lHMjAg
Jul 25, 2011 | 02:03 PM
#131
Kart racing is not the same as autox. They are used for both. We actually had two karts at the event but at this track they have a kart road course track. You are out of your mind if you are telling me suspension doesn't play a big role in autox. Go tell that to those guys running nationals.
This was my fastest lap of the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Lb4lHMjAg
This was my fastest lap of the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Lb4lHMjAg
Last edited by Robevo RS; Jul 25, 2011 at 02:15 PM.
Jul 25, 2011 | 02:17 PM
#132
A couple of points here. First this is a relatively smooth track with no curbs, really heavy braking zones or fast corners (never really get past mid 3rd gear). Second, you have a ton of body roll. Are you running a roll center kit? I don't see it on your list.
Lastly, i think you are carrying too much speed through the first part of the corners especially in the longer ones (0:45 and 1:20) making you wait longer than you need to go back to throttle. You might find sone time if you back off a little sooner (not slower necessarily just sooner) so you can get back to throttle sooner and for longer. Road racing is essentially a drag race connected by corners. The sooner you go to throttle the faster you are at the end of the straight. Hard not to do when you only have a few runs to learn a course as the tendency is to overdrive but something to keep in mind.
Lastly, i think you are carrying too much speed through the first part of the corners especially in the longer ones (0:45 and 1:20) making you wait longer than you need to go back to throttle. You might find sone time if you back off a little sooner (not slower necessarily just sooner) so you can get back to throttle sooner and for longer. Road racing is essentially a drag race connected by corners. The sooner you go to throttle the faster you are at the end of the straight. Hard not to do when you only have a few runs to learn a course as the tendency is to overdrive but something to keep in mind.
Last edited by jimm; Jul 25, 2011 at 02:19 PM.
Jul 25, 2011 | 02:23 PM
#134
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...ack-autox.html
AUto X is a place where you can compensate sooo much with tire and tire pressure. That is why the AutoX is not the best environment to judge coilover performance.
AUto X is a place where you can compensate sooo much with tire and tire pressure. That is why the AutoX is not the best environment to judge coilover performance.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Jul 25, 2011 at 02:31 PM.
Jul 25, 2011 | 02:48 PM
#135
