Need help chosing a proper coilover setup.
Aug 29, 2013, 09:00 AM
#76
edit: note that I'm here referring to the second plot, for the 510s. The plot for the 500s shows that they would be highly sub-optimal for anything but driving on the street with really soft springs. More compression than rebound???? Please.
OK, the upper half of the plot is compression (bump) damping; the lower half is rebound. The adjuster only really affects rebound with little to no crosstalk, which is good. If you're going to have just one adjuster, having it change rebound only is the best option, too. So far, so good.
The compression damping is moderately digressive, with the slope dropping in half past the "nose." The nose being at 1"/sec is fine. Different people argue about this, some wanting it a bit higher, but 1"/sec is fine.
The rebound damping also looks pretty good. Having the option of anything from twice as much rebound as compression to as high as almost 6:1 is great. Crank it way up for autocrossing; leave it low for the street. I'm a bit put off my the non-linear effect of the adjuster, but that's true on some pretty fancy stuff (such as Konis), so I can't rag on them too much for that. It's the jumping up and down about the Ultra Digressive rebound curve that's silly. You just don't see rebound shaft velocities high enough for that to ever matter.
All in all, they look OK to above average. Again, that they are digressive in bump and can be set to have way more rebound than compression is what we're after. That they aren't as digressive in bump as I'd like and the adjuster is almost a dichotomous low/high switch are the weak points to me. But for the price, it's at least what you'd expect, if not more.
OK, the upper half of the plot is compression (bump) damping; the lower half is rebound. The adjuster only really affects rebound with little to no crosstalk, which is good. If you're going to have just one adjuster, having it change rebound only is the best option, too. So far, so good.
The compression damping is moderately digressive, with the slope dropping in half past the "nose." The nose being at 1"/sec is fine. Different people argue about this, some wanting it a bit higher, but 1"/sec is fine.
The rebound damping also looks pretty good. Having the option of anything from twice as much rebound as compression to as high as almost 6:1 is great. Crank it way up for autocrossing; leave it low for the street. I'm a bit put off my the non-linear effect of the adjuster, but that's true on some pretty fancy stuff (such as Konis), so I can't rag on them too much for that. It's the jumping up and down about the Ultra Digressive rebound curve that's silly. You just don't see rebound shaft velocities high enough for that to ever matter.
All in all, they look OK to above average. Again, that they are digressive in bump and can be set to have way more rebound than compression is what we're after. That they aren't as digressive in bump as I'd like and the adjuster is almost a dichotomous low/high switch are the weak points to me. But for the price, it's at least what you'd expect, if not more.
Last edited by Iowa999; Aug 29, 2013 at 09:06 AM.
Aug 29, 2013, 09:04 AM
#77
With all that said, those are averaged/smoothed force-by-velocity plots. FA had some serious problems with hysteresis in their earlier versions, so I'd want to see a raw force-by-displacement (aka "football" plot) or even just a three- or five-sweep, unaveraged force-by-velocity plot before suddenly being seen as a fan-boi.
Aug 30, 2013, 06:55 AM
#78
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Since I couldn't find any plots/graphs of the Eibach R1's, can you tell me anything positive/negative about those? Someone earlier in the thread mentioned them, but didn't back them up with anything.
Aug 30, 2013, 07:23 AM
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so, going back to our FA conversation - I found more info on their site, which can be seen here: http://www.fortune-auto.com/shocktech.htm
Maybe I'm just not understand the affects of these graphs, but what is not good about what I'm looking at here? Are the compression results too low? Also, what says this is a worse setup than stock per say?
..Lot of questions, but I'm really trying to understand my options per $ and learn as much as I can because suspension is really where I lack the most understanding.
Aug 30, 2013, 07:24 AM
#81
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Fedja
Aug 30, 2013, 04:04 PM
#82
Assuming that people are having Bilstein do the work and are sending their shocks to the place in Poway, CA, the trick is to discuss what you want in advance and then include some kind of reminder in the box. Otherwise, they might just rebuild to the default.
You, absolutely, can ask for a tad less high-speed compression and a ton more low-speed rebound, such that the shocks will now work well with the 5.5 kg springs from GTWorx or Swift. In fact, given how cool and helpful he is, asking Andrew from GTWorx what he would suggest might be a good place to start. Plus, for all I know, GTWorx might rebuild Billies in house.
You, absolutely, can ask for a tad less high-speed compression and a ton more low-speed rebound, such that the shocks will now work well with the 5.5 kg springs from GTWorx or Swift. In fact, given how cool and helpful he is, asking Andrew from GTWorx what he would suggest might be a good place to start. Plus, for all I know, GTWorx might rebuild Billies in house.
Bilstein has a form you can fill out where you can put in your spring rates and a few notes about what you want. PM me if you have GTWORX springs and want a few tips.
- Andy
Sep 3, 2013, 10:59 AM
#83
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Sep 4, 2013, 07:57 AM
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So, I called Eibach technical support this morning. Right away with no wait, I was greeted by customer support in the US! I asked if they had any shock dyno information they could get me on the R1 coilovers, and the person I spoke with said that he would be more than happy to get me that info. So, while there is no info on the web that I could find, he is going to run down to the lab and convert the data he has into pdf form for me, and e-mail it to me later in the day. When I have this info, I will be uploading it for review! A+ customer service experience though... very happy about that!
Sep 4, 2013, 01:05 PM
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Here are some force vs. velocity graphs on the Eibach R1 coilovers. What are your thoughts?
..These are direct from Eibach's tech support, and care full-open and full-closed.
FRONT:
REAR:
..These are direct from Eibach's tech support, and care full-open and full-closed.
FRONT:
REAR:
