Stonewall

Hey guys, need a little help with winter tires.

I'd like to know what you guys run on your Evos during the winter. For me, my MR is a pleasure car, and I've only had it going on a month now. But aside from my Silverado, it's the only car I have that is worth anything on something aside from dry pavement. I don't PLAN on using the car much during winter, I don't actually plan on using it at all for winter. In a perfect world I'd just use my truck if the roads and my driveway are bad, and my 2010 Lancer if it's just a regular winter day. But there is probably inevitably going to be times I have to take my Evo.

For instance my family is having a large reunion this year for Thanksgiving in Pennsylvania up near Erie, and I'll be taking my Evo. Erie is in the snow belt, so I'll more than likely be up to my waist in snow around Thanksgiving time, unless I get extremely lucky. Northern PA isn't known for it's mild winters by any means. Even where I live now we don't have harsh horrible winters like we did up in PA, parts of New England or places like North Dakota, but we still have some bad winter days.

Plus my place sits back in the country on a big hill, and our driveway is just short of a quarter mile, and is about a 10% grade, so it's not too enjoyable to try to make it up or down in the winter. Going down is a science, and after many years I've mastered it. You basically have to put one tire (or side) over in the grass next to the ditch, keep the other side on the driveway, and do about 1/4th a MPH going down. I mean you seriously just crawl down the driveway in slow motion. If you build up any speed and have to hit your brakes, you might as well prepare to have to put your vehicle in the ditch. I've had to put my 4WD Silverado in the ditch more than once, even with chains on all 4 tires. Coming UP the hill, you just have to put it in 4 low and floor it, and hope you get enough grip at the bottom and build up enough momentum to make it to the top. Luckily the '02s 327 has the power, and the gears are a little high. I can put my truck in low range and floor it, and the truck just shifts like I was on a highway. It'll do about 30+ MPH in low range. Used to have an old '98 Silverado that had a 350 in it, and it was geared so low you could barely do 15 MPH in low range, and it would never make it up the hill.

Anyways, what I hope to do is pull off my nice BBS rims, get a pair of junker rims, and getting the best snow tires I can. But I've run into a problem just trying to find the tires. I've gone to Wal-Mart, gone to the smaller Mom & Pop shops, gone just about every place I know to go locally, and I'm not having any luck finding winter tires that look like they have any sort of bite. Every winter tire I find in a 245-40-R18 are straight treads. And I can't downsize the rims I plan on buying for winter, as anything smaller won't fit because of the rotors and calipers. And straight treaded tires are just pathetic in the winter, even if they ARE branded "winter" or "all season" tires. Even the more expensive household name brand tires like Goodyear, Michelin, etc., are really nothing more than glorified straight treaded tires with some gimmicky trademarked tread pattern. I can't remember what brand, but one of them has some weird play on the name "winter" for one of their tires, which is just straight treads with a strip that's supposed to bite into ice, and the rest of outer part is supposed to dig into snow, etc. But from years of experience driving in snow and ice, they don't look too promising. Once snow/slush gets packed up into your treads, the tire becomes worthless, and the snow doesn't have any way to escape like with a rougher tread pattern you'll see on trucks. Those types of rougher tread throw the snow out of the tire as you drive, keeping at least some of your tread on the road. And that's the type of tire I'm looking for to put on my Evo for the winter, a real aggressive rough treaded tire you normally see on trucks. Because I don't think even S-AWD will save your butt if you've got standard straight tread tires on your car during winter, even if they are branded "winter tires."

I've been trying to find out what type of tires the guys that do rally-cross in winter use, or what type of tires they use on shows that showcase the Evos performance on different surfaces. First one that comes to mind is the American version of Top Gear where the guy raced the skiers down that mountain. And regardless of how fake and staged it was, he did drive that Evo through some pretty heavy snow, but they mentioned nothing about what type of snow tires they were using. Just that they were using winter tires and the Evo wasn't just a "pavement queen."

The other problem I've been running into is even when I do find "winter tires," they're still all straight treads, and even still I've yet to find a tire that you are able to stud. Every time I have a shop pull up a tire, they say it's not able to be studded. I'd really like to be able to find a tire I'm able to stud, or at least have the option of studding, just in case I need the extra grip. And honestly I don't think anything would stop an Evo with rough-tread studded tires. I just don't know if it's possible, as every tire you get is going to be low profile, and I don't know if you'd be able to find a tire that fit the rims and the car, and still have enough rubber to stud without puncturing the tire.

So I got to thinking the best option I had was to ask around and hopefully someone that lives up north in the snow belt could give me some input on what they use for the winter. Or someone would know what type of tires WRC cars use, or just someone that hobby/amateur races on winter courses with their Evo could let me know of a good tire to put on the car that will chug through anything mother nature has to throw at me.

And just as a bonus help tip, if anyone has done what I plan on doing and bought some less expensive winter rims to use during winter, if you could let me know either a good website to find a cheap set of rims, or just the brand name and what type you have on your car, I'd really appreciate it. I'm not looking for anything sexy, high performance, etc. I just want an old cheap pair of rims I can pick up for maybe a couple hundreds bucks a rim (or less) to slap my winter tires on if I can ever find a decent set.

Thanks in advance.

WW-GSR

iTrader: (47)

Wow, that was a read!! Based on your description of the snow u see in your own driveway, u have 2 options: keep the tires u have on the car now & drive it only if the roads are clear, or buy the most badass snow tires (Blizzaks, Hakkapeliita's, etc). Tire Rack has about the most extensive selection you'll find anywhere with reviews/tests & everything else you'd want to know about tires.

zsak

I have the Hakkas and they work extremely well. I travel a lot between Montana and South Dakota in my evo and I have not gotten stuck yet

DGS

What the rally cars do for snow rallyes is put on smaller brakes (because you have less traction anyway), and then go with narrower tires (with studs) to cut down through the snow.

What I did for my EVO 8 in MA was to get ASA 7.5x17 rims that would fit over the stock Brembos, and fitted Nokian WRs in 225 width (down from stock 235). Handled great in deep snow. Not as well on ice.

But the thing is, once you get clear of the driveway, you're going to be spending most of your time on plowed public roads. So most of the roads will be clear with the odd patch of black ice and maybe a thin layer of hard-pack.

After I moved to NoVA, a local road hazard ripped out the side of one of my Nokians, so I replaced them with Conti all seasons, which are a bit disappointing, especially in the narrower 225 width. But they're cheap, which was a factor when I was picking up nails every few weeks. (I was glad when the housing bubble burst and they stopped building new condos everywhere and dropping hardware on the roads between jobs. Haven't had another flat since 2007.)

I have an EVO X MR on order that's due in December. Just in time to make the stock A13Cs useless.
Because of the mandatory tire pressure monitors -- and because I'm getting older and lazy -- I can't be swapping wheels and tires twice a year on the X.
So I'm thinking of going with Bridgestone RE970AS ... or RE960AS RFTs and dumping the spare.
(In the DC area, usually the first thing that happens in the snow is that a neighbor takes his Econoline van with bald tires out, and gets stuck, blocking the entire cul-de-sac.
The whole area comes to a halt, and we all telecommute anyway. They have no idea how to deal with snow, here.)

For going up your drive, remember that your MR has the SAWC system to prevent you just spinning one wheel.
Even my EVO 8 without SAWC doesn't have problems getting going on refrozen melt-off that cripples 911s and Beemers.
So your problem will be braking. (Everyone has all wheel brakes -- for all the good it does. )

I always hated ABS, because it can't cover all the variety of surfaces and situations.
My Celica GT-Four had ABS that would attempt to maintain steering to the detriment of stopping in a straight line. (Most GT-Four owners disabled the system.)
The EVO 8's ABS isn't as annoying, but it still isn't as good as manually modulating the brakes.

Short of running a grappling hook and rappelling line , your best bet for downhill on the drive will be learning to handle the car in a slide (it *is* a rally based car ), and using the hand brake to shift your brake balance rearward (to keep it nose forward).

In "snow country", they're much better at clearing the roads than here where snow is a rarity.
So, once on public roads, it's mostly a matter of having a tire compound that doesn't go off at low temperatures.

And knowing how to handle a car at the limits of traction. (The most important performance component is the nut behind the wheel. )
The good news is that a car that handles well on the track at the limits of traction also handles well in snow, where the limits of traction come much earlier.

You should have seen how annoyed the MA people in nose-heavy Wagoneers got when the weight-balanced Celica GT-Four blew past them in the snow.
And that was on OEM tires.
The car's weight balance and handling abilities have more impact on its ability in the snow than the bolt-on tires.

I had to take my nose-heavy Alfa spider out in the snow once. Every time I tried to stop going downhill, it tried to swap ends.
By contrast, I could run a GTV-6 (with a perfect 50/50 weight distro) in MA in the snow without even fitting snow tires.
Even the Ferrari does well on snow (although with only 4 inches of clearance, and with summer-only RE-11s, it doesn't do it often ).

The EVO X is a great platform. Any set of winter tires will likely give you better handling than your nose-heavy truck.

But you are limited by the ground clearance. After about eight inches on the ground, your air dam becomes a snow plow.
(I remember a Scooby blowing up in Rally Sweden, after the radiator got blocked with snow. The EVOs also have the intercooler up front.)
Maybe get a plow attachment for your truck to clear your driveway?

MikePL

iTrader: (9)

I have had WS70s on my car for a couple seasons. I can say they surprised me when I first got them. I went up a snow covered mountain road, which was very steep going up and down and it gave me a lot of confidence. Going up was literally a breeze, as if there was no snow on the ground. I felt as if it was better with more snow because it dug deeper into it and got me up the hill.

Going down was also surprising. I obviously took my time and went slow but they did not slip even once. I had SUVs on the side of the road unable to make it up/down some of these hills and roads. Even a Sheriffs SUV with their winter set up didn't follow me onto an unplowed road on the mountain. I also went out onto an ice covered parking lot just to see how they reacted, and it was pretty good. There was sliding, but less than I expected. I am pleased with these tires and would buy them again 100%.

I will say that you can definitely tell a difference from brand new and the next season in terms of grip though. They still work incredibly, but you can feel the change over time. Also, if you were going on a family trip to PA with a loaded car, your grip would be increased with the weight. I have chosen to take the EVO over a Q5 SUV on a trip through the snow. The only downside with these cars is the ground clearance, if there is debris in the road from plows and what not, you can't really avoid them.

If the roads get as bad as you think where nothing will help, I would just recommend not driving obviously. But I think for what you will normally be experiencing, as DGS said, plowed roads, you will be fine to drive an evo with good snow tires. Also as he said, narrower is better. You want to dig through the snow for the grip.

Stonewall

Had my reply all typed out and hit the stupid X button on Chrome by mistake. Go me >_>


Yeah, I've already run into problems with clearance only having a car a month. It's a huge pain around here. Everywhere you go there's steep grades, steep inclines/declines when you go to pull into a bank with a huge incline off the road, or pull out of a gas station that has a decline that looks like it came straight off a roller-coaster ride, or you drive around to get to a gas pump and the stupid people at the gas station have the concrete built up around the covers for the underground gas containers built up 6 inches high. Everywhere you go you have to worry about dragging the front end out from under your car or tearing something up. Or anytime there is roadkill in the road, a rock, anything of the sort, I either have to swerve over into the other lane, or slam on the brakes if there's oncoming traffic or else I'm going to do thousands in damage by sending some sort of debris through my plastic front end, FMIC, Radiator, AC radiator, and anything else it hits. I know just 2 months ago I hit a raccoon in my 2010 Lancer ES and did 6,000 dollars worth of damage and didn't have my car for almost 4 weeks. I'd hate to think how much the damage would of been if I had had my MR at the time and hit the raccoon with my MR instead of just the standard Lancer. I know one thing you sure do become a LOT more mindful of things laying in the road, or BUMP signs, or crappy road repairs that they half-assed leaving the road uneven. Even hitting a small rock at highway speeds that sits up enough for your lower lip to catch it could do some serious damage. So I'm sure this winter will be just wonderful in terms of me trying to keep my car in one piece and without getting a scratch on it.


Anyways, I'm not sure how far I can downsize my rims and still get around the calipers and rotors, and come off with enough wiggle room that I don't tear something up when I hit a bump, turn my wheels as far as they'll go left or right, etc. And I'm not even sure where to go to have it done and get it measured to see just how far down I can go. I'm not sure if any of the tire shops around here have the know-how to do it, because most of them see my car and just scratch their heads and go "The hell is that thing?" Or even if they do have the know-how be ACCURATE, so they don't tell me a number, then I buy a set of rims that end up being too small and end up harming my car.

And I know most of you are saying the worst thing I'd have to deal with is my driveway, and when I got down the roads would be fine. In any normal state, or normal county, that'd be true for the most part, but it's kind of hard to express how truly horrible the DOH is where I live. The only time they even attempt to keep the roads halfway passable is if school isn't cancelled. If school is cancelled, you're literally on your own; and you can guarantee there's going to be wrecks out the wazoo. Even if my Evo could handle the bad roads, I'd be so worried about some other idiot with bald tires or some teen who doesn't know how to drive on snow wiping out my brand new car.

Even when they do plow, they only plow out from our county's little town seat 8 miles out in either direction on any of the main routes, to which there are 3. Once you get about 7-8 miles outside of town, (which is pretty much where I sit) they stop plowing. And even when they do plow, they do a half-*** pass, plow what little bit off they get from their first pass, throw down the smallest amount of salt they possibly can, then go park their truck back at the state road garage and go back home. They don't even attempt to plow the secondary roads, and there are a LOT of them around here. The only thing they'll plow/salt is the main highway, and as I said they only go so far and then quit, if they even get out and plow at all.

I run as a volunteer Firefighter/EMT here too, and I'm not lying, I've sat on the scene of an MVA for 5 hours before waiting for a salt truck to show up. It's beyond ridiculous. I can remember one time years ago when I was using a Cavalier to commute back and forth to college, there's 4 large hills on the main route to get to my house once you get off the interstate. The only ones that were plowed were the 2 closest to town, in the southern part of the county you couldn't even see the yellow or white lines, it was just a sheet of white snow with ice under it. I remember putting my passenger side off the road, because I knew there was a large area of gravel all along the berm until you got to the top of the hill, and just held my foot to the floor. After several adrenaline rushes later, I made it to the top, started to creep my way down the other side of the hill, was doing maybe 2 MPH, made it about 100 feet and ended up in a ditch. Didn't do anything to my car because I was going so slow and the ditch was shallow, but that's just how bad it is around here. Just tried finding an old picture I took of it, but I think its on my old laptop. If I find it I'll post it here just to show you guys what I have to deal with around here. Then I stood in a guy's driveway with about 5 other people who were either in a ditch like me, or pulled off on the berm waiting for a state road truck to come by. We must of been there hours, even after making several calls to the 911 center. There was even an off duty state trooper that slid down the road backwards, and a bunch of us helped push him up the hill, all the while his back tires spinning like crazy. We had a good laugh afterwards and were saying hopefully he remembers our faces and we get a free "get out of speeding ticket" card.

I've called and complained as a civilian, I've called and complained as a member of the Fire Department, as a first responder and public servant on behalf of the community for the sake of safety, but it does no good. Even if the 911 center passes the information on, the DOH doesn't do anything. I don't know if its because they don't want to pay the drivers and loaders overtime or what, but it's like pulling teeth just trying to keep the MAIN roads clear, say nothing about the secondaries. Even the WV Turnpike and interstates don't get plowed very well.

Matter of fact, here's a guy in an Evo driving through West Virginia on the Turnpike right around the area I live. This is how even our INTERSTATES look like when it snows, so you can imagine how bad the main roads are, say nothing about the secondary roads. The AWD saved this guy's butt from getting into a huge wreck and totaling his car, but it still did some pretty hefty damage. So this is why I say I need a darn good set of winter tires.


Where I live it's nothing but mountains and turns, and more turns. Finding a straight stretch that's even half as long as a football field around here is like finding gold. Then even if you do find a straight stretch it's followed up by a huge dead-man's curve, or blind hill. And even if I rally'd my car down my driveway alternating between the throttle and brake to keep my nose pointed straight. Normally hitting your brake on snow/ice is a death sentence, and the only thing you can do is give it gas to bring the rear end around. But there's a slight turn about halfway down my driveway, and then once you get to the bottom, you immediate hit the highway, and there's a complete blind turn to the left that comes down from a hill, and straight stretch followed by a hill so you can't see anything that might be coming up over it. I hate our driveway, every time you pull out you risk getting T-boned by some moron coming down off the hill to the right around the blind turn doing 70, or some moron doing 70 down the straight stretch up over top of that hump. So even if I managed to make it down the driveway in one piece, I could be faced with oncoming traffic with no way to stop, and that'd just be one horrific mess.

I try to keep it plowed, I've got a plow for my Silverado and do my best. It's blacktop, so even if there is snow on it, if I can get a majority of it plowed, as long as the sun is out, the driveway will usually melt itself off in a few hours. Even if I can get a portion of it plowed it allows me to get so far and stop, or get traction back if I start to loose it. One of the perks of having a paved blacktop driveway, it just soaks up the sun and heats up and melts that snow in the winter. But the sun has to be out and the top layer of snow has to be plowed off so the sun can hit that black pavement. But as I said, I've even ditched a 4WD truck with chains on all 4 wheels before; it can get kind of treacherous. And I refuse to salt it, I paid over 15 grand to have it paved 6 years ago, and I'm not salting it and having it ruined so I have to pay (probably closer to 20 grand now) to have it paved again.

So I'm just trying to find the roughest treaded tires I can, something akin to what you'd see on a truck, not a sports car. Just something that will grab and bite, and that is treaded wide enough to throw any snow that gets packed into the treads. The ability to have them studded is just a bonus. I don't know I'd actually put studs in them or not because again, don't want to tear my driveway up too bad. But if I decide I need them, it'd be nice to have the option.

When it comes to rims, I honestly doubt I'll downsize. To me it's just a hassle to go through it all. And I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I thought I read somewhere that the Evo will start throwing MIL lights and the AWD will throw a CEL if you put different sized tires on there than what is OEM because for whatever reason whatever feedback the AWD gets from the tires gets all screwed up. I'm not sure if its true, and if it is, does it effect the way your AWD control works? Doesn't make much sense to do that if it's going to screw up the very thing that makes your Evo go so well in the snow.

So I'm guessing searching Tire Rack is going to be my best option for finding the type of tire I'm looking for then from what I'm gathering? And when it comes to rims, I know some of you might have GSRs, others MRs, but have any of you switched out your good rims for a set of old junker rims for the winter? Do you suggest any certain brand that still matches the OEM specs that don't cost an arm and a leg?

tkromer

iTrader: (6)

Well I run Michelin Alpin PA3s, I have a driveway just like yours, and heck I even live in WV too.

The only time I run in to trouble is when the snow is over the bumper, and honestly even then I didn't have trouble but I was afraid it would pack up and break something.

Neal@tirerack

iTrader: (25)

Here are the winter tire classes and the stronger performers of each class. That may help determine what type of snow tire best meets your criteria. From there you can choose a top performer in that class.

Personally I always want more snow tire that I'll probably need. I'll trade some handling and wear to make sure I have what it takes to get home at night after work. Thus, the Blizzak WS70 has been my tire of choice.


Performance Winter / Snow - For drivers wanting enhanced dry road handling from their winter / snow tires and are willing to trade some snow and ice traction to get it. Top performers in this class, include the Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D and Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3.

Studless Ice & Snow - This category is designed for the driver who wants to maximize snow and ice traction from their winter / snow tires without the inconvenience of using winter tire studs. A few options worth considering are the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 and Bridgestone Blizzak WS70.

Studdable Winter / Snow - Are you looking for basic snow traction and/or the additional security provided by adding optional winter tire studs to enhance ice traction? Then take a look at the General AltiMAX Arctic, Firestone Winterforce or another option from this category.

Stonewall

Thanks Neal, that really narrows it down and gives me a good list with several options to check out.

And personally, I'm like you. I'll take a little extra road noise, and a little less performance for the security of knowing my tires are going to actually do their job and plow through snow, grab into ice, and get me to my destination safely, and not end up over the side of a cliff dead, or unhurt but with a wrecked 43 grand car.

Roen

iTrader: (1)

225 Hakkapellitta's on stock MR BBS rims.

wiretap

iTrader: (2)

I use 235/40/18 Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D's on my Evo X in the winter. Been through about 4 winters with my Evo using those tires and they perform awesome. Been through 2 feet of snow, ice storms, up slippery hills, dirt roads turned to ice, etc.

Iowa999

iTrader: (1)

I would not go shorter-than-OE for snows. Slightly taller is better than OE. OE is better than shorter.

wiretap

iTrader: (2)

Especially on the pothole covered Michigan roads.

Flossy_X

iTrader: (2)

Great info in this thread i was going to pose that same question. 1st winter in My evo. Looking forward to it!

tkromer

iTrader: (6)

235/45/18 on stock rims is what I run. Front inner fender liners just touched at full lock before I pushed them out.