Why are the 2005s so much quicker and faster than the 2003s/2004s?
Jun 27, 2005, 12:43 PM
#166
I saw a black '05 with 272's, 3" TBE, intake, and TTM reflash run 12.17 @ 116mph!!! On the stock clutch!!! That is just freaking lunacy. 272's = ~$600, custom/cheap 3" TBE = ~$500-$800, TTM reflash = $200 + shipping, and intake = ~$200. So, for $1,500 give or take, you are knocking on 11's. Probably ~$1,000 on the cheap shopping around on ebay & this forum, etc. & being really budget conscious, especially if you have a shop weld up a cheap TBE & use a K&N drop-in instead of an intake.
'05's truly are monstrous.
'05's truly are monstrous.
Last edited by machron1; Jun 27, 2005 at 12:48 PM.
Jun 30, 2005, 02:43 AM
#167
Originally Posted by Mr.MR
I raced my friends 04' a couple of times last night. Here's the breakdown; he has the VIII with safc, 3" tbe/no cat, K&N round direct mount filter. I have the 05' MR with just a HKS 30th catback. To take out any variables, we went from a 10 roll so no launching was involved. We counted to 3 and floored it. As soon as we hit the gas I pulled about 1 car on him.
I raced my friends 04' a couple of times last night. Here's the breakdown; he has the VIII with safc, 3" tbe/no cat, K&N round direct mount filter. I have the 05' MR with just a HKS 30th catback. To take out any variables, we went from a 10 roll so no launching was involved. We counted to 3 and floored it. As soon as we hit the gas I pulled about 1 car on him.
..................5speed....6speed
1st............2.928.......2.909
2nd...........1.95........1.944
3rd............1.407......1.434
4th............1.031.......1.1
5th.............0.72........0.868
6th..............n/a.........0.693
final ratio....4.529......4.583
........gear*finalDrive
........5speed......6speed............6sp/5sp ratio
1st......13.261....13.332............1.005 or +0.5%
2nd......8.832......8.909............1.009 or +0.9%
3rd......6.372......6.572............1.031 or + 3.1%
4th......4.669......5.041............1.080 or +8%
5th......3.261......3.978............1.220 or +22%
6th.....................3.176............0.974 or -2.6%
so gearing ain't it. Likewise, there is no way you have 1.25x more HP. But at 10mph, you are both at only about <~1700RPM. I would bet that you either jumped the gun a bit or you spool up faster from low revs.
Jun 30, 2005, 06:01 AM
#168
Tuning can have a large effect on spoolup of your turbo and how much heat soak your intercooler has also plays a role. Those two factors alone could buy a car length if different between the two cars. As for gearing I'm somewhat glad I ended going 5 speed since modded the gears start becoming so fast anyways I can imagine making them shorter. What is the fastest running 6 speed MR these days? Running 9's on a 6 speed would make those gears fly awfully fast.
Jun 30, 2005, 06:12 AM
#169
Originally Posted by Hiboost
Tuning can have a large effect on spoolup of your turbo and how much heat soak your intercooler has also plays a role. Those two factors alone could buy a car length if different between the two cars. As for gearing I'm somewhat glad I ended going 5 speed since modded the gears start becoming so fast anyways I can imagine making them shorter. What is the fastest running 6 speed MR these days? Running 9's on a 6 speed would make those gears fly awfully fast.
Jun 30, 2005, 06:15 AM
#170
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
None of us have reached 112 yet, at least those who post on here and EvoMR. I am hitting my rev limiter in 4th gear well before the traps, but I can't do anything about it. Shifting to 5th lost me 4 mph, so it's gonna be up to dsm95hybrid to take his "404whp" and show us how fast he can go in 5th.
Last edited by dsm95hybrid; Jun 30, 2005 at 07:24 PM.
Jun 30, 2005, 06:20 AM
#171
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr.MR
I don't get it. You are saying the same things as I did. I know exactly what the sidewall height is for the tires. I understand what all the #'s mean. The thing is, I want to know how much effect the taller tire(245/45=25.6" od) vs. the shorter tire(255/40=25" od) will effect the 6-speeds quick gearing. I'm thankful for your help, but we're saying the same thing. I agree that it just depends on the situation and what the car is used for. The thing I'm thinking is that the MR 6-speed should be able to pull away from the 5-speed with the exact same power and same tire height. I don't want to have taller tires that take away the gearing advantage in the low gears, and make the handling less precise due to taller sidewalls. Once again, I appreciate the help, but we are on the same page already. 
Sounds to me you already know the inevitable.
I was just saying like if you wanted to get some drag radials or track only tires/rims, you should get a different height depending on the application/power. Otherwise yes, use the stock height for daily driving.
Now if you guys are right at the limit of 111.99 mph you COULD put more pressure in the tires to get your magical 112 mph just for the sake of arguement.
Jun 30, 2005, 08:32 AM
#174
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Get back to the track and show us what another 80whp gets you...that's based off the assumption I was around 320whp on my runs (80 degrees, 70% humidity).
Jun 30, 2005, 01:11 PM
#175
Evolving Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chi-town burbs
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aha, that is another thing I forgot. He has a huge fmic and an upper icp with a hks bov.
Originally Posted by Hiboost
Tuning can have a large effect on spoolup of your turbo and how much heat soak your intercooler has also plays a role. Those two factors alone could buy a car length if different between the two cars. As for gearing I'm somewhat glad I ended going 5 speed since modded the gears start becoming so fast anyways I can imagine making them shorter. What is the fastest running 6 speed MR these days? Running 9's on a 6 speed would make those gears fly awfully fast.
Jun 30, 2005, 01:14 PM
#176
Evolving Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chi-town burbs
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by barney malone
By my figuring, if you were to gain a car length on him in 1st gear (from 10->43mph) by virtue of having a constant multiplier in acceleration (due to gearing, or tire diameter or just (1+Const)*HP) then you would need like 25% faster acceleration (e.g. 1.25x). The gearing in the first 2 gears are almost the same:
..................5speed....6speed
1st............2.928.......2.909
2nd...........1.95........1.944
3rd............1.407......1.434
4th............1.031.......1.1
5th.............0.72........0.868
6th..............n/a.........0.693
final ratio....4.529......4.583
........gear*finalDrive
........5speed......6speed............6sp/5sp ratio
1st......13.261....13.332............1.005 or +0.5%
2nd......8.832......8.909............1.009 or +0.9%
3rd......6.372......6.572............1.031 or + 3.1%
4th......4.669......5.041............1.080 or +8%
5th......3.261......3.978............1.220 or +22%
6th.....................3.176............0.974 or -2.6%
so gearing ain't it. Likewise, there is no way you have 1.25x more HP. But at 10mph, you are both at only about <~1700RPM. I would bet that you either jumped the gun a bit or you spool up faster from low revs.
..................5speed....6speed
1st............2.928.......2.909
2nd...........1.95........1.944
3rd............1.407......1.434
4th............1.031.......1.1
5th.............0.72........0.868
6th..............n/a.........0.693
final ratio....4.529......4.583
........gear*finalDrive
........5speed......6speed............6sp/5sp ratio
1st......13.261....13.332............1.005 or +0.5%
2nd......8.832......8.909............1.009 or +0.9%
3rd......6.372......6.572............1.031 or + 3.1%
4th......4.669......5.041............1.080 or +8%
5th......3.261......3.978............1.220 or +22%
6th.....................3.176............0.974 or -2.6%
so gearing ain't it. Likewise, there is no way you have 1.25x more HP. But at 10mph, you are both at only about <~1700RPM. I would bet that you either jumped the gun a bit or you spool up faster from low revs.
Jun 30, 2005, 01:25 PM
#177
Originally Posted by Mr.MR
That's the thing, we tried twice in a row. I waited til I saw his car jump before I even hit the gas on the 2nd run. I think he has something making him spool up to slow. ie: large upper icp and large fmic. To much room=not enough velocity.
Jun 30, 2005, 02:01 PM
#178
Originally Posted by dsm95hybrid
I speak in fact, not assumptions. That is where we are different. Go dyno your car if you want to know what it puts down not jump on the coat-tails of someone else's dynosheet and deduct WHP in whatever theoretical formula you use to bench-dyno.
Btw, how am I jumping on ANYONE'S coattails when I have never bragged about what my car does or could dyno? I've only made LOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS based off 1/4-mile et/mph, 1/8th-mile et/mph, and my stock dyno numbers. From what you've said in other posts, you think I am putting MORE than 320 to the wheels, so if anything, I'm UNDERESTIMATING. So anyway, if I only dyno 280whp, then I sure hope your 404whp has a nice 11.0@124 on the way. The likelihood of me dyno'ing OVER 320 is quite slim...
Jun 30, 2005, 02:09 PM
#179
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Your level of haughtiness is unsurpassed. You think everyone has easy access to dynos or something? It isn't worth it to me to go pay $100 for 3 pulls just to prove to YOU or anyone else what my WHP is. I could care less if I dyno 270 OR 320 to the wheels right now, because I've already proven how powerful my car is at the track. I will be dyno'ing my MR on July 23rd for a whopping $40, though, since that is our next DSMCA Dyno Day, so hopefully that makes you happy.
Btw, how am I jumping on ANYONE'S coattails when I have never bragged about what my car does or could dyno? I've only made LOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS based off 1/4-mile et/mph, 1/8th-mile et/mph, and my stock dyno numbers. From what you've said in other posts, you think I am putting MORE than 320 to the wheels, so if anything, I'm UNDERESTIMATING. So anyway, if I only dyno 280whp, then I sure hope your 404whp has a nice 11.0@124 on the way. The likelihood of me dyno'ing OVER 320 is quite slim...
The estimating at all should cease. I never said I dynoed 404whp, yet again you are making an *** out of yourself with misquotes. You would think you were bright enough to read my sig. It all depends what type of dyno and if the aerodynamics and and weight are calculated correctly.
Jun 30, 2005, 06:26 PM
#180
Originally Posted by dsm95hybrid
Awesome. Stop with the misinfo and hypothetical guestimating until then.
What misinfo? What's wrong with logical guesses or estimation? In the absence of hard evidence, one must use scientific estimation. You harp on "facts," yet you won't divulge to anyone what your actual mods are...how much whp you had when you got your track times...what gear you dyno'd in...blah blah. You are incredibly cryptic about your mods and track information, but you expect us to follow some strict guidelines of undeniable fact...quite hyprocritical, indeed.
Sure... The estimating at all should cease. I never said I dynoed 404whp, yet again you are making an *** out of yourself with misquotes. You would think you were bright enough to read my sig. It all depends what type of dyno and if the aerodynamics and and weight are calculated correctly.
What misinfo? What's wrong with logical guesses or estimation? In the absence of hard evidence, one must use scientific estimation. You harp on "facts," yet you won't divulge to anyone what your actual mods are...how much whp you had when you got your track times...what gear you dyno'd in...blah blah. You are incredibly cryptic about your mods and track information, but you expect us to follow some strict guidelines of undeniable fact...quite hyprocritical, indeed.
Sure...
The estimating at all should cease. I never said I dynoed 404whp, yet again you are making an *** out of yourself with misquotes. You would think you were bright enough to read my sig. It all depends what type of dyno and if the aerodynamics and and weight are calculated correctly.