STi vs. Evo revisited, don't flame me, have searched
May 9, 2007, 12:47 AM
#64
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What did you expect?......*grabs a bag of popcorn 
May 9, 2007, 12:59 AM
#65
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There are many dynographs posted on this site showing Evo IXs making 340-360whp on stg1 mods and pump gas. Stg1 mods only cost $1270 according to my signature and average out to 330whp on a base flash. Turn that into a custom flash for $200 more and you have your ~350whp for $1500. That's without going cheap on anything, too. If people toss on an Ebay exhaust and do some self-tuning with Ecuflash, they can spend less than $500 and make similar power if they know what they're doing and don't mind having an Ebay exhaust.
As for Subies making 400whp on the stock motor and stock turbo "without cheater crap," you gotta be kidding me. There are LOTS of Evos doing 400whp on the stock motor and stock turbo, but it obviously requires meth/alky injection or race gas. How else do you run enough boost to make that much power? gimme a break. Up through 06, STi's couldn't make jack squat for power on the stock turbo, so get real. If 07s are miraculously making 400whp with the stock turbo on pump gas, then great...congratulations.
As for STi's making 350whp with $1500, you'd have to be the most gullible person on this Earth to think that the parts in this LINK will put an STi at 350whp. Please GOD tell me you don't really believe that. Did you look at the parts?
- Cat-back (jesus, just a cat-back???)
- EcuTek flash
- Crank pulley (laf)
- drop-in filter
Good God...I have raced my Evo so many times at the drag strip, autox, and road course, and I have _never_ in my life seen an STi put down 350whp with just those basic mods. You cannot freakin possibly believe that crap. The Vivid site claims 390 _crank_ horsepower despite not using an engine dyno, which means they are guessing. 390 crank does not equal 350whp. The STI _claims_ 300 at the crank in stock form but only makes 225-230whp or so. If you take that same 25% drivetrain loss and apply it to a GUESS of 390 crank, that gives you 292WHP. If you only apply a 20% loss, that's 312whp. Get a clue, dude...
As for Subies making 400whp on the stock motor and stock turbo "without cheater crap," you gotta be kidding me. There are LOTS of Evos doing 400whp on the stock motor and stock turbo, but it obviously requires meth/alky injection or race gas. How else do you run enough boost to make that much power? gimme a break. Up through 06, STi's couldn't make jack squat for power on the stock turbo, so get real. If 07s are miraculously making 400whp with the stock turbo on pump gas, then great...congratulations.
As for STi's making 350whp with $1500, you'd have to be the most gullible person on this Earth to think that the parts in this LINK will put an STi at 350whp. Please GOD tell me you don't really believe that. Did you look at the parts?
- Cat-back (jesus, just a cat-back???)
- EcuTek flash
- Crank pulley (laf)
- drop-in filter
Good God...I have raced my Evo so many times at the drag strip, autox, and road course, and I have _never_ in my life seen an STi put down 350whp with just those basic mods. You cannot freakin possibly believe that crap. The Vivid site claims 390 _crank_ horsepower despite not using an engine dyno, which means they are guessing. 390 crank does not equal 350whp. The STI _claims_ 300 at the crank in stock form but only makes 225-230whp or so. If you take that same 25% drivetrain loss and apply it to a GUESS of 390 crank, that gives you 292WHP. If you only apply a 20% loss, that's 312whp. Get a clue, dude...
i can't believe that guy actually responded to 2-3 pages of this thread fighting for the STi...
it's not a bad car by any means, but in terms of making power on the stock turbo it's just not very efficient. dollar per hp the Evo can't be beat.
and like everybody already said, TRAP SPEED is the best indication of how much power a car really is making (relative to its gearing, weight, aero, etc) - all dyno's read differently.
the 400whp Sti you linked need a trap speed equivalent to that power to show that it's really making "400whp" - then again wtf does that even mean? my car makes 380whp right now............... on a dynopack.
to the OP - my IX has the basic stage 1 mods right now makin around 315-330whp on 91 oct. on typical dynojets - and under 2500rpm it does feel less responsive than the 04 STi with tbe and tune that i drove a while back....
like aforementioned you have to drive both cars (modded Evo) because none of us really know what's really "fun" for you. you can look at dyno graphs to see the spool up.
my IX right now, in 2nd gear around 3500rpm has a really nice kick to it, whereas the Sti feels more linear since the torque comes on smoother (smaller turbo + 2.5L vs. 2.0L + bigger turbo) - but relatively speaking the Sti's top end feels a bit weaker.
good luck in your decision.
May 9, 2007, 01:00 AM
#66
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hey how about this ... the moments of thruth..
check this out
mods are :
04 sti : FP green, APS 650 FMIC, Perrin 820 cc injectors, TXS TBE,UTEC, Greddy Profec B2, Worx BOV, ETC...
340 whp.........well over $1500
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...66535526095359
how about this?
06 sti : Helix downpipe, borla exhaust, Ecuteck engine managment.
295 whp 333 wtq... maybe $1500
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWDFv009U5k
and finally over 350whp....
so here it is: 06 sti mods are:
deadbolt sz49, gruppe-s headers, godspeed turbo inlet, TurboXS TBE,Perrin 850 injectors,walbro 255 fuelpump,NGK 1 step colder spark plugs,APS CAI,
360 hp /360 tq with 95 octane..ho-hooo $$$$$.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e-1V...elated&search=
So what you going to get for $1500 ???? to get 350 whp.... dude...
????
and finally couple of dyno charts from your own forum....
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=700004&page=9
scroll down...or do what ever you want...to find me the $1500 =350 whp STI
check this out
mods are :
04 sti : FP green, APS 650 FMIC, Perrin 820 cc injectors, TXS TBE,UTEC, Greddy Profec B2, Worx BOV, ETC...
340 whp.........well over $1500
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...66535526095359
how about this?
06 sti : Helix downpipe, borla exhaust, Ecuteck engine managment.
295 whp 333 wtq... maybe $1500
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWDFv009U5k
and finally over 350whp....
so here it is: 06 sti mods are:
deadbolt sz49, gruppe-s headers, godspeed turbo inlet, TurboXS TBE,Perrin 850 injectors,walbro 255 fuelpump,NGK 1 step colder spark plugs,APS CAI,
360 hp /360 tq with 95 octane..ho-hooo $$$$$.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e-1V...elated&search=
So what you going to get for $1500 ???? to get 350 whp.... dude...
????and finally couple of dyno charts from your own forum....
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=700004&page=9
scroll down...or do what ever you want...to find me the $1500 =350 whp STI
FPGreen STI....
Last night the Perrin Performance STI rolled onto the Mustang dyno here in Portland along with PDXTuning for some pump gas and unleaded race gas tuning. This is a US STI, with all of the Perrin goodies installed. Jeff Perrin was doing the tuning, and Tim and I were there to cheer or mop, depending on how things went.
While not the most complete list, here is quick rundown of the important modifications:
Stock STI engine, block, transmission, etc.
Forced Performance ‘Green’ Turbo
Perrin 3” Turboback Exhaust
Perrin STI Fuel Rails and Lines
Perrin Uppipe
Perrin 810cc injectors
Perrin BigMaf
Perrin FMIC
Perrin Boost Controller
Perrin Catch Can
Supra '-1020' (290lph@13.5V@43psi) Fuel Pump
All of the Perrin suspension goodies (sway bars, links, etc)
18” SSR Comps
STI UTEC
On pump 92 octane Oregon gas, it put down 375 awhp@6800 rpm, and 330 lb-ft@5000 rpm. With a mix of 92 and 104 unleaded race gas, it put down 424 awhp@6700 rpm and 364 lb-ft@5400 rpm. And this is on ‘Monica’, the Matrix Mustang Dyno! Dynojet figures would be perhaps 10% higher.
on a MUSTANG DYNO!!! straight from nasioc....I know this isn't some amazing number at all...but it still is decent power.
STOCK TURBO NUMBERS...
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d...f900652765.htm
with 337awhp
here's another 07
Parts:
Invidia TBE - Catless
Hyperflow Top Mount
STOCK intake.
Power on Pump gas: 315.5whp and 370wtq at 20.5psi.
We then decided to mix 50/50 93 and C10. The results were 325whp and 395wtq @ 22psi.
05 STI w/ a Agile tune
Stock Turbo Stage 2
APS FMIC 525
One step colder plugs
350 AWTQ 330 AWHP 21 psi
I'm definetly not saying that the STI is better....there are alot more evo's making similar and most certainly more power than these numbers on green's and stock turbos.....but the numbers you posted seemed low.
I raced my buddy corey's sti in my roomates IX 2 nights ago and got pulled from a 20roll and a 50 roll...
evo mods: tbe, fmic, licp, uicp, drop in, flash, mbc at 21psi
sti: flash, tbe, tgv delete, drop in, mbc psi unknown...
1/4 mile time.
evo 12.4 @ 110
sti 12.3 at 112
both on pump and stock turbos
May 9, 2007, 01:01 AM
#67
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May 9, 2007, 04:10 AM
#68
[QUOTE=cangriracing;4309863]
sorry, we all got walbro.
i thought everyone got it, if they have ,MBC ,TBE ,intake and flash,just for safety./$89/ You have a 9? My other friend the same day made 306 whp with hes 03.mods are : TBE, 10.5 hotside,TBE with HIgh flow cat,aem ebc,HKS RS intake,O2 housing. /of course walbro too/
and yes it's on pump gas 93.
we got our own dyno day, 5 evo.
Sean Ivey baby!!!
i thought everyone got it, if they have ,MBC ,TBE ,intake and flash,just for safety./$89/ You have a 9? My other friend the same day made 306 whp with hes 03.mods are : TBE, 10.5 hotside,TBE with HIgh flow cat,aem ebc,HKS RS intake,O2 housing. /of course walbro too/
and yes it's on pump gas 93.
we got our own dyno day, 5 evo.
Sean Ivey baby!!!
Last edited by Robevo RS; May 9, 2007 at 04:21 AM.
May 9, 2007, 04:15 AM
#69
i never had any big issue with my two evo so far, i'm using Evo in a last 3 years./first 8 and now 9/mean time every low and midly tuned sti got problems...braking parts,like rear diff , engine can't hold 360 whp /04 sti/ etc.
both car have a same realibility. Way you take care of it and drive it,dude.
resale???
Last edited by Robevo RS; May 9, 2007 at 04:24 AM.
May 9, 2007, 04:34 AM
#71
enigma dsm, i not just type # here, i gave you a proof too.
get those links and check it out the sti own forum about #'s.
here is one 07 scroll down on that page.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2007 STI
Facility: Harman Motive www.harmanmotive.com
Type of Dyno: Dynojet
Baseline # 262 hp 275 tq
Boost: stock
Fuel: 91 and 95 octane
Target AFR: Unknown
SAE Corrections: uncorrected
91 octane Peak WHP at RPM: 302.8 @5500 RPM
91 octane Peak WTQ at RPM: 329.3 @ 3500 RPM
95 octane Peak HP at RPM: 308 @ 5500 RPM
95 octane Peak WTQ at RPM: 350 @ 3600 RPM
Mods: Maddad 3" bellmouth dp with high flow cat- Maddad twin tip 3" exhaust, K&N dropin, GP Moto elbow, Accessport v2.0 and Protune. Suspension: F/R whiteline sways with kartboy links. "
that subi on the video dosn't state what he has only the stock turbo...
we talking about get more whp for $1500, on the STI vs EVO.
wich is technilcly and pruven 4 years on row it's not going to happened.
Since all US STI is based not the JDM STI 2.0l engine
the us STI got the forester engine,that is why rspond so poorly for the mods and breaks easyer.
in europe where my brother have an STI, hes engine is much more responsive and effective .
Why they do that 2.5l? Because is cheaper,and americans love big engine.Market...Just remember how big hit was when they came out with that 2.5l...everybody thought it will be invincible..4 years pruven they where wrong.
They do not care tuners.
get those links and check it out the sti own forum about #'s.
here is one 07 scroll down on that page.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2007 STI
Facility: Harman Motive www.harmanmotive.com
Type of Dyno: Dynojet
Baseline # 262 hp 275 tq
Boost: stock
Fuel: 91 and 95 octane
Target AFR: Unknown
SAE Corrections: uncorrected
91 octane Peak WHP at RPM: 302.8 @5500 RPM
91 octane Peak WTQ at RPM: 329.3 @ 3500 RPM
95 octane Peak HP at RPM: 308 @ 5500 RPM
95 octane Peak WTQ at RPM: 350 @ 3600 RPM
Mods: Maddad 3" bellmouth dp with high flow cat- Maddad twin tip 3" exhaust, K&N dropin, GP Moto elbow, Accessport v2.0 and Protune. Suspension: F/R whiteline sways with kartboy links. "
that subi on the video dosn't state what he has only the stock turbo...
we talking about get more whp for $1500, on the STI vs EVO.
wich is technilcly and pruven 4 years on row it's not going to happened.
Since all US STI is based not the JDM STI 2.0l engine
the us STI got the forester engine,that is why rspond so poorly for the mods and breaks easyer.
in europe where my brother have an STI, hes engine is much more responsive and effective .
Why they do that 2.5l? Because is cheaper,and americans love big engine.Market...Just remember how big hit was when they came out with that 2.5l...everybody thought it will be invincible..4 years pruven they where wrong.
They do not care tuners.
May 9, 2007, 05:05 AM
#72
Stock Subies seem to have good reliability but when modded I have seen too many break due to mechanical failure... On the Evo end, with modding so easy, I have seen quite a few Evos break as well due to human error.
Both make good, both have good parts available to those that are resourceful.
I've seen more ppl go from Subie to Evo than Evo to Subie over the last few years which represents what the general market thinks.
All comes down to preference.
Both make good, both have good parts available to those that are resourceful.
I've seen more ppl go from Subie to Evo than Evo to Subie over the last few years which represents what the general market thinks.
All comes down to preference.
May 9, 2007, 11:22 AM
#73
Stock Subies seem to have good reliability but when modded I have seen too many break due to mechanical failure... On the Evo end, with modding so easy, I have seen quite a few Evos break as well due to human error.
Both make good, both have good parts available to those that are resourceful.
I've seen more ppl go from Subie to Evo than Evo to Subie over the last few years which represents what the general market thinks.
All comes down to preference.
Both make good, both have good parts available to those that are resourceful.
I've seen more ppl go from Subie to Evo than Evo to Subie over the last few years which represents what the general market thinks.
All comes down to preference.
When you start modifying the the Evo is a winner by a mile.
May 9, 2007, 11:33 AM
#74
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sorry, we all got walbro.
i thought everyone got it, if they have ,MBC ,TBE ,intake and flash,just for safety./$89/ You have a 9? My other friend the same day made 306 whp with hes 03.mods are : TBE, 10.5 hotside,TBE with HIgh flow cat,aem ebc,HKS RS intake,O2 housing. /of course walbro too/
and yes it's on pump gas 93.
we got our own dyno day, 5 evo.
Sean Ivey baby!!![/QUOTE]
oh ok yeah it makes sense, i have a 9 and i felt really dumb for not buying a fuel pump for the tune, ill prolly get one and some uicp and licp and go for another tune 340 whp to 350 whp will be enough for me.
i thought everyone got it, if they have ,MBC ,TBE ,intake and flash,just for safety./$89/ You have a 9? My other friend the same day made 306 whp with hes 03.mods are : TBE, 10.5 hotside,TBE with HIgh flow cat,aem ebc,HKS RS intake,O2 housing. /of course walbro too/
and yes it's on pump gas 93.
we got our own dyno day, 5 evo.
Sean Ivey baby!!!
[/QUOTE]oh ok yeah it makes sense, i have a 9 and i felt really dumb for not buying a fuel pump for the tune, ill prolly get one and some uicp and licp and go for another tune 340 whp to 350 whp will be enough for me.
May 9, 2007, 11:41 AM
#75
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I am looking for a fun car to drive in the city (read as under 60mph). I love the low end torque of the STi for this. Driving it up to 4-5k rpm in the city, without really stomping on it was fun. I felt the torque, and some of the lag made the car appear like it was faster than it may actually be (reminds me of the VTEC in my old prelude) And a few months earlier, I loved the 06/07 STi look, interior and out, making it a simple choice. I was determined at the time to eventually get an STi.
Mike