Alluminum 4B11T
May 10, 2007, 08:53 PM
#46
Actually aluminum is more expensive than iron and it's not really true that you can get more performance out of a cast iron engine. Properly shaped sleeved aluminum engine will not only be lighter but also as capable as it's iron block counterpart. Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes, they all use aluminum engines, I don't think those companies want to save money, aluminum is just a better building material. Aluminum is lighter, conducts heat better, and because it conducts heat better it won;t reach as high of temperature than it's equivalent iron block counterpart. 4G63, although a great engine for it's time, is 25 years old, it's rather heavy based on todays standards, it's not as fuel/emission efficient as todays modern engines. It's time for something new.
Carlos
May 10, 2007, 09:31 PM
#47
Good find on that video.
That motor is similar to most contemporary motors these days.
A trend of absolute GARBAGE. Plastic valve covers, plastic intake manifolds,
light weight open decked aluminum block, light weight internals.
ABSOLUTE GARBAGE !!!
I can guarantee you that 4b11 will not sustain the abuse the
the 4G63T is capable of withstanding.
Sort of reminds me of the QR25DE used in the Nissan Sentra SpecV.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...5de/index.html
Motors like the QR25DE are the main reason why I dumped my Sentra.
Motors like the 4B11 are the reason why, I will keep my Evo VIII.
Also Changing cams ( correctly ) will now require the replacement of
those shim buckets to obtain proper clearances.
That means a trip to the dealer. I bet those wont be cheap either.
Plus good luck on your local Mitsubishi dealer having those in stock.
That motor is similar to most contemporary motors these days.
A trend of absolute GARBAGE. Plastic valve covers, plastic intake manifolds,
light weight open decked aluminum block, light weight internals.
ABSOLUTE GARBAGE !!!
I can guarantee you that 4b11 will not sustain the abuse the
the 4G63T is capable of withstanding.
Sort of reminds me of the QR25DE used in the Nissan Sentra SpecV.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...5de/index.html
Motors like the QR25DE are the main reason why I dumped my Sentra.
Motors like the 4B11 are the reason why, I will keep my Evo VIII.
Also Changing cams ( correctly ) will now require the replacement of
those shim buckets to obtain proper clearances.
That means a trip to the dealer. I bet those wont be cheap either.
Plus good luck on your local Mitsubishi dealer having those in stock.
So far the 4G63 has put the standard very high. I would be happy if the 4B11 engine produces more power, more torque and gets better gas mileage.
The plastic valve cover comment, I wouldn't streess that much, how many trillions of 4G63 owners have had cracks on their "fancy" aluminium valve cover?, the 10 mil screws snap easily and the valve cover itself cracks and leaks like a siege.
The QR25DE I wouldn't even compare it to a Mistubishi engine, Mitsubishi at least compete in big events, can you name many events in which a Nissan Sentra fitted with a QR25DE has been universally successfull?
I am not doubting you on some of your points but it is too soon to throw sand on the new 4B11 engine. But if you want to talk about garbage cheap cars look on american cars.
Your first quote was:
"That motor is similar to most contemporary motors these days"
and I say to you: really? so let me think, a Evo puts 150hp per litre and the motor is similar to contemporary motors? Cmon, give me a break. The Evo X will be another sucessfull blow to the industry, Mitsubishi motors will put this "300hp" rated Evo X on the streets that will make 400hp cars embarass.
Carlos
Last edited by fromWRXtoEVO; May 10, 2007 at 09:36 PM.
May 10, 2007, 09:42 PM
#49
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timing chain is where it is at, why do you think Honda switched over, more reliability... as for the 4B11t, no one really knows how well this engine is going to perform against the ancient 4G63, We will just have to wait and see when they come out and people start modding them and running them on the track.
May 10, 2007, 09:46 PM
#50
Do you think Mitsubishi Motors would have to even share any success with Hyunday. I don't think so.
Mitsubishi are unique and advance, they were putting fancy nice cars in the early 80s( starion turbo,mirage turbo ,tredia turbo ,cordia turbo and eclipse) while Hyunday had what? a Hynday Pony
Give me a break!
Carlos
May 10, 2007, 09:48 PM
#51
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if anyone is skeptical about the cooling efficiency of Al, just crack open your PC & examine the heatsink hovering above your chipset. now on the flipside, some Subie owners have had issues turning up the boost & melting cyl#3. most aftermarket turbo kits rotate the turbo higher so this partially goes away but i think they have to sleeve those motors as well.
let's also not forget the Acura RDX which is an Al block with sleeves that runs 13.8PSI!!!! unusual for an SUV but impressive by Honda nonetheless...
let's also not forget the Acura RDX which is an Al block with sleeves that runs 13.8PSI!!!! unusual for an SUV but impressive by Honda nonetheless...
May 10, 2007, 10:00 PM
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May 11, 2007, 08:46 AM
#56
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well if your really want to talk about block materials, then you should be looking at the BMW 335i. its uses magniesium(sp) alloy! yes the smae stuff as F1 uprights used to be made from and its dead light!
any worries of ally blocks should be thrown out now! look at the LS1 guys. a few years ago they where all "600bhp and your lifting heads". now they have learnt to tune the car (and how important timing is!!) guys are seeing over 1000bhp on ally blocks that are DDs!
also this could mena that companies such as world castings might get into the game and come up with tall deck versions of these blocks! or even bigger bore stuff so you can push the revs even higher.
also forget problems with chains! alot of cars manufactures run them now. and the tech has come on a LONG way!
be nice to see a 6 bolt desing of this ally block though, like the LS guys are getting. imagine the boost you could run then??????
thanks Chris.
any worries of ally blocks should be thrown out now! look at the LS1 guys. a few years ago they where all "600bhp and your lifting heads". now they have learnt to tune the car (and how important timing is!!) guys are seeing over 1000bhp on ally blocks that are DDs!
also this could mena that companies such as world castings might get into the game and come up with tall deck versions of these blocks! or even bigger bore stuff so you can push the revs even higher.
also forget problems with chains! alot of cars manufactures run them now. and the tech has come on a LONG way!
be nice to see a 6 bolt desing of this ally block though, like the LS guys are getting. imagine the boost you could run then??????
thanks Chris.
May 11, 2007, 09:02 AM
#57
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Umm, the LS1 displaces 5.7 liters. So in terms of hp/liter of engine stress that 600 hp figure is only slightly above 100hp/liter. The current Evo places 1.5x that amount of stress on the motor already. The 1000 hp LS1 is only equivalent to a 350hp 2.0 liter motor, so that's about the right amount in terms of the new motor and the kind of stress it's gonna see. So how reliable is that 1000hp LS1 motor? How long will it run before it needs to be rebuilt?
I'm NOT saying it can't be done, but it is at the outer envelope of current engine technology. I would have been happier if they upped the displacement to 2.5 liters when they switched to aluminum.
I'm NOT saying it can't be done, but it is at the outer envelope of current engine technology. I would have been happier if they upped the displacement to 2.5 liters when they switched to aluminum.
Last edited by DrSmile; May 11, 2007 at 09:07 AM.
f*ck that, keep it WRC spec 
May 11, 2007, 01:56 PM
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The 4B11 is what is known as the "world" engine. The block (and only the block) were codesigned by Chrysler/Hyundai/Mitsubishi to save development costs (it costs millions to design an all new motor). Mitsu designed it's own heads, valvetrain, etc. The big change is not only the aluminum block, but the direct gas injection and better MIVEC. Direct gas injection is a big thing. The Mazdaspeed motor already has it. They run 15.6 psi with a 9.5:1 compression ratio without needing pig rich AF ratios. Those motors are clean! In addition the newer MIVEC should be more like Honda's iVTEC which continuously varies intake and exhaust timing and lift (the old VTEC was like a light switch on/off at a certain rpm). The new motor should be a lot better. But it will take time for tuners to learn this motor and ECU. Mazdaspeed 3 and 6 owners are having to go through this now. Very limited parts available and limited ECU tuning because it's a brand new motor (I'm also a proud CX7 owner which has the same motor).
May 11, 2007, 02:18 PM
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