How reliable are twin-clutch transmissions (DSG, SST)?

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Aug 21, 2007, 02:47 PM

#31

SlowSportSedan

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The car reads it somehow.... not exactly sure how but it anticipates shifts... if ur coming up to redline the car wont be able to downshift so itll set itself up for the next gear.... but if ur at the point where u can downshift and it sees you hitting the brakes then it may set itself up in the lower gear.....

The tranny will be great, the only question is exactly what will it hold.. im going to estimate 450whp since mitsu always over engineers the evo's. The limiting factor may end up being the engine block so the tranny may not even matter...

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Aug 21, 2007, 02:51 PM

#32

Draco-REX

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagos

i bet this will be a case of the sst trans shifting faster, but having more drive train loss at the wheels. making the 2 cars run the same 1/4 times.

Transmissions like the SST and DSG don't just shift faster, they are AS effecicient as a manual transmission since they transfer power the same way. Manufacturers are adopting them because they can get manual-level efficiency (which helps them meet EPA regs) with the ease of driving that automatics offer.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing transmissions like these start to trickle down into other more sedate models. They are win-win for the manufacturers and the VAST majority of car buyers out there.

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Aug 21, 2007, 03:00 PM

#33

Draco-REX

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Thegame

And if what you say is true, slowsportsedan, how does the car anticipate downshifts?

Vigo, the Bugatti is not a sports car... It's a supercar. You won't see many of those competing on the WRC or at the strip or whatever. I understand that the SST shifts quick, but it still rely's on human input to get desired results. I don't care how quick a computer will shift my car if it has no idea when I need to downshift going into the turn, or need to skip a gear for some odd reason. The SST is not foolproof and I don't think it alone will help track times over a really good manual tranny driver. It's basically designed for poorly skilled drivers. Plain and simple. I don't want a car that my gf can take for a stroll whenever she pleases. And I know for a fact, that you're not ever gonna crack a sub 1.8 60' on a stock SST. It simply won't allow you to put the tranny in danger. Too many safegaurds. This is Mitsu's **** poor answer to synchro and clutch issues.

You didn't catch the leaked video #2 did you?

As for how it anticipates, I would assume that if you are accellerating it engages the next gear up; decellerating, the next gear down.

In the leaked video, the driver really gave the SST a workout. It downshifted very responsively.

THere is a kernel of truth to the fact that the SST will make the Evo easier to drive for some. But you cannot dismiss the benefits of the transmission. If I wanted my X just for track/drag racing, I would get the SST for sure. 8ms upshifts while (most likely) maintaining full boost would be great. I'm only getting a manual purely because of the Daily-Driving Fun Factor.

Saying "yeah, but I worked a clutch" is not an exscuse for coming in second. Formula 1 and Rally Drivers aren't too proud to use a sequential gearbox. They know the advantage of technology when they see it.

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Aug 21, 2007, 03:08 PM

#34

Vigo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Thegame

I'm sure the tranny will handle some power, but how reliable and bulletproof will it be? Let's just say that the current evo's do not have by any means the best transmissions, eating synchro after synchro. Even in stock power level form. And let's not even talk about the clutches.

That's cool for the launch control.

And if what you say is true, slowsportsedan, how does the car anticipate downshifts?

Vigo, the Bugatti is not a sports car... It's a supercar. You won't see many of those competing on the WRC or at the strip or whatever. I understand that the SST shifts quick, but it still rely's on human input to get desired results. I don't care how quick a computer will shift my car if it has no idea when I need to downshift going into the turn, or need to skip a gear for some odd reason. The SST is not foolproof and I don't think it alone will help track times over a really good manual tranny driver. It's basically designed for poorly skilled drivers. Plain and simple. I don't want a car that my gf can take for a stroll whenever she pleases. And I know for a fact, that you're not ever gonna crack a sub 1.8 60' on a stock SST. It simply won't allow you to put the tranny in danger. Too many safegaurds. This is Mitsu's **** poor answer to synchro and clutch issues.

A super car is also a sports car. How did you end up to that conclusion that they are not? That's was just dumb. A super car is just a sports car with super abilities that cost super amounts money.

Okay, what would happen if you get two equal professional race car drivers driving two equal cars, but the difference between them is only the transmission. One will have a standard manual transmission and the other will have a DSG/TC-SST type of transmission. The one with DSG/TC-SST will beat the standard manual all day long on a road course, because it shifts faster and more consistently than any human on Earth. That's why they use it in F1, WRC and various other super cars.

No matter how good you think you are, you will never out shift a computer, unless you're Superman.

Oh, by the way you seem to think that TC-SST is always in full automatic mode, where you just press the gas. You can shift gears manually via paddles shifters. The right paddle is for shifting up and the left paddle is for shifting down. You initiate the shifting process all by yourself, then the computer does the rest.

Last edited by Vigo; Aug 21, 2007 at 03:15 PM.

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Aug 22, 2007, 11:08 AM

#35

Chibana

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Like has been stated by others, there's a reason why so many, and so many different types of, race cars use sequential manuals. They outperform standard manual transmissions. They are technologically superior in every way, and, as many people still seem to be missing, they are a manual transmission. Just because they have an automatic shift mode doesn't change the fact. That's why I like the DSG and SST better than going with a good auto tranny with paddle shifters (as will be offered in the BMW 135i, with the fantastic GM-sourced auto that has received great praise). I suppose in real world driving, it may not matter much whether the tranny is, underneath, an auto or a manual, but I still like the idea of a sequential manual better than the best paddle-shifting auto.

Having said that, I still think I prefer a traditional manual transmission, just for fun and driver involvement, but for my third, toy, car, this is not an option, as the wife has stated that in order to get her support, my toy car will have to be drivable by her in the rare cases when her vehicle is in the shop, etc. So I'm left with just a few choices for my toy/track car, and the EVO X with SST is one of them. And I think on those occasional track days, I'll appreciate the superior shifting of the SST over a standard manual.