madfast

for those of you who keep nagging about how great the 4G63 was and how much of a POS the 4B11 is you might wanna read this.

http://www.year2032.com/ecotec.htm

yep, that's right. that POS ecotec with open deck block took 750 hp on stock block with stock sleeves. kinda makes you wanna get a solstice GXP no? direct injected turbo? crap, i thought domestics were supposed to suck?

so now that that's settled what other "myths" does the 4B11 have to debunk in order to get some lovin?

92gsxbaltimore

iTrader: (1)

they o-ringed it at 600hp, still good results though. it does relieve some worries for me.

Trojan man

iTrader: (10)

I don't think the ecotek can de-bunk any of the concerns surrounding the 4b11. All that shows is that significantly more investment is needed in an ecotech to run 800 crank hp than is needed in a 4g63.

An open deck design won't be a problem for anyone who was planning to rebuild their motor in the first place, it's only a concern for the daily driver guy trying to wring as much as he can out of the stock parts. Afterall, a yugo motor can be built to take 1000hp if you have the money and dementia.

madfast

yeah, but they also tried the solid deck and that did nothing to stop the gasket from blowing. while open deck blocks do have a higher tendency to blow gaskets with high boost, i don't think it was the problem here. even with the o-rings, the cylinders still could have flexed or cracked but they didn't. not until about 750 hp. 5 years later do you think mitsu is gonna make a WORSE engine than the hugely underrated ecotec?

bottomline is that the stock 4B11 should be way more tunable than people think. all this talk about weak open deck aluminium engine blocks is based only on theoretic and NOT on empiric thinking.

madfast

you must take things in context. the ecotec was sourced from the saturn ion. an econocar POS by any means. the block and sleeves took 750 hp before the sleeves failed. the stock crank took 500 hp. all the other bits obviously aren't going to be strong, expensive parts like you'd find on the evo's 4g63. instead, for a cheap car, they used cheap bits like you'd find on the sonata's 4g63.

so worry about the bottom end before you worry about the block. and with mitsu's track record of bulletproof bottom ends, why are we worrying again?

Trojan man

iTrader: (10)

I wasn't worrying, i'm simply saying that you cannot compare the block design that GM put into their ecotek to a new "world engine" design that mitsu is using. If there is one thing GM does extremely well is engineer very stout aluminum engine blocks, and have been doing so for years. I'm not sure the same can be said for hyundai, chrysler, or mitsu.

But you cannot compare what one company does to how reliable the 4b11 will be. That'd be like comparing the ecotek's head now to a k-series (or even b-series) honda head. It is possible that the 4b11 will be very stout, but its possible that it'll be ej25 weak as well.

And that article says switching to a sleeved block didn't solve the problem experienced when approaching 600hp - because that problem was lifting heads which is somewhat common due to Al block's tendency to expand and bolts not holding as much clamping force. Obviously a closed deck won't fix this problem. However, the article did go on to say that the block will be sleeved for the 1000hp attempts.

I think the majority of the 4b11 "problems" will be solved within the first 2.5 years, but there will be a learning curve, and I don't expect an open block design to be as tough as a closed deck iron setup. But that doesn't mean it won't hold 400whp box stock.

madfast

i totally agree you can't directly compare the 2 engines. but i think it's safe to say that a properly designed open deck block can take more power than people think. and that's why i made the thread. to show an example of how strong an open deck block can be.

call it blind faith but i doubt mitsu would put just any engine in the evo...

evo542

people forget that we move forward not backwards technology wise. If it is built right it will take tons of abuse. Even top fuel cars use aluminum block and have like 8,000hp. Of course the evo doesn't even come close but with such high advancement in technology anything is possible