Features the UTEC REALLY REALLY Needs to compete with a Standalone
Dec 4, 2004, 07:07 AM
#1
Features the UTEC REALLY REALLY Needs to compete with a Standalone
Ok.. I found there's a few things that I feel the UTEC really can use to be a contender as an alternative to a full standalone.. And I honestly feel we REALLY need these features.
1) Idle speed control and other Idle specific tuning parameters
2) Open loop bypass (momentarily disable closed loop fueling at idle to allow tuning)
3) the solenoid output should have its own Map and use duty cycle (Water Injection!)
4) Configurable Logging (User pics the parameters for output)
5) Use the vehicle speed sensor data and RPM to interpolate what gear your in and SHOW this in the logs!
6) MAF dropout compensation (idle stabilization and signal averaging) in closed loop so sudden throttle closing under slight loads don't result in stalling (like the EIDS)
and finally something that you guys should really do
7) GM or ProM (ford Cobra) MAF input and Ford (Wells) Air Temp sensor, you guys should allow a 0-5v input from a MAF sensor or even a MAP sensor and create a voltage to karmann translation interpolation map.. then generate the karmann output.. All the tools are there in the UTEC since you have experience with both sensors. If you use a table for signal input and signal output, you can allow temp bias, airflow and TPS, and can then create calibrations for EITHER the MAF or MAP so effectively you can offer both an upgraded MAF kit, or a speed density kit as plug and play options.. THis is something **NO** other engine management is capable of, and looks to be fairly easy to accomodate given most of this programming already appears to be in the UTEC.
(FWIW the MAF sensor should be easier than speed density) the hard part is just producing accurate AIT and OE MAP values to the ECU to keep it happy and you can generate any karmann output you like from a hot wire (or any MAF for that matter) and "running right"
This is all I want for christmas..
IF you guys want to dominate the market.. This is the stuff we need..
1) Idle speed control and other Idle specific tuning parameters
2) Open loop bypass (momentarily disable closed loop fueling at idle to allow tuning)
3) the solenoid output should have its own Map and use duty cycle (Water Injection!)
4) Configurable Logging (User pics the parameters for output)
5) Use the vehicle speed sensor data and RPM to interpolate what gear your in and SHOW this in the logs!
6) MAF dropout compensation (idle stabilization and signal averaging) in closed loop so sudden throttle closing under slight loads don't result in stalling (like the EIDS)
and finally something that you guys should really do
7) GM or ProM (ford Cobra) MAF input and Ford (Wells) Air Temp sensor, you guys should allow a 0-5v input from a MAF sensor or even a MAP sensor and create a voltage to karmann translation interpolation map.. then generate the karmann output.. All the tools are there in the UTEC since you have experience with both sensors. If you use a table for signal input and signal output, you can allow temp bias, airflow and TPS, and can then create calibrations for EITHER the MAF or MAP so effectively you can offer both an upgraded MAF kit, or a speed density kit as plug and play options.. THis is something **NO** other engine management is capable of, and looks to be fairly easy to accomodate given most of this programming already appears to be in the UTEC.
(FWIW the MAF sensor should be easier than speed density) the hard part is just producing accurate AIT and OE MAP values to the ECU to keep it happy and you can generate any karmann output you like from a hot wire (or any MAF for that matter) and "running right"
This is all I want for christmas..
IF you guys want to dominate the market.. This is the stuff we need..
Dec 4, 2004, 07:28 AM
#3
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That's an excellence idea Jack! I'm currently a Utec user, but I found that the Utec is unfit for me on many areas due to several drivability problems that I experience with the Utec. There are weaknesses that Jack mention regarding the utec that really need to be addressed IF turboXS want to continue selling the Utec to evo owers. I love the utec and its simplicity, but at the same time scorn at its weaknesses and only wish for more.
If and only if those features are added, I can assure that TURBOXS UTEC will dominate the engine management market for the EVO and the STi. There is no doubt in my mind that this will happen. With those added features, end users no longer need any kind of flash or standalone. Those 2 have their pros and cons that the Utec can easily compensate for.
I will go back to using the UTEC if one day turboxs added the features above! As for now, I will have to switch over to the dark side....AEM EMS...
I beg of you, TURBOXS engineers, to added these features to the utec if possible. I'm sure 10 million other utec users share Jack's request. Please make it happen!!!!
If and only if those features are added, I can assure that TURBOXS UTEC will dominate the engine management market for the EVO and the STi. There is no doubt in my mind that this will happen. With those added features, end users no longer need any kind of flash or standalone. Those 2 have their pros and cons that the Utec can easily compensate for.
I will go back to using the UTEC if one day turboxs added the features above! As for now, I will have to switch over to the dark side....AEM EMS...
I beg of you, TURBOXS engineers, to added these features to the utec if possible. I'm sure 10 million other utec users share Jack's request. Please make it happen!!!!
Dec 4, 2004, 07:30 AM
#4
Originally Posted by Spec C
Get rid of hyperterminal..
HOWEVER with that said, I think there should be something like UCC3 offered to compliment the text only interface.. and I think there *SHOULD* be a compressed data stream and increased logging sample rate, but those to me aren't very important since I have tools that I've written, and the Author of UCC3 did an outstanding job of producing a tool that has all of the features I need to work on maps offline and generate basemaps.
Once your comfortable with the text screen and keyboard movements, I find it to be very easy to navigate.. What it lacks in "Pretty pictures" it makes up for in the ability to run on *ANY* PC, including a 386 laptop running QModem or Procomm and an old copy of DOS..
PLUS this is the only unit I know of that will interface with the MAC, and LINUX, and anything else you can throw at it.
Dec 4, 2004, 07:30 AM
#5
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Yea, added A GUI and many MAP SMOOTHING features will be extremely helpful in tuning for drivability...
AHHHHH, I can only dream.... Dream of one day where I no longer have to make compromises in the quest for ultimate power...
AHHHHH, I can only dream.... Dream of one day where I no longer have to make compromises in the quest for ultimate power...
Dec 4, 2004, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MalibuJack
I don't agree with that.. Say what you like, but thanks to the universal "VT100" interface it will work on ANY computer or handheld device capable of connecting to a serial port and offers VT100 terminal emulation.
HOWEVER with that said, I think there should be something like UCC3 offered to compliment the text only interface.. and I think there *SHOULD* be a compressed data stream and increased logging sample rate, but those to me aren't very important since I have tools that I've written, and the Author of UCC3 did an outstanding job of producing a tool that has all of the features I need to work on maps offline and generate basemaps.
Once your comfortable with the text screen and keyboard movements, I find it to be very easy to navigate.. What it lacks in "Pretty pictures" it makes up for in the ability to run on *ANY* PC, including a 386 laptop running QModem or Procomm and an old copy of DOS..
PLUS this is the only unit I know of that will interface with the MAC, and LINUX, and anything else you can throw at it.
HOWEVER with that said, I think there should be something like UCC3 offered to compliment the text only interface.. and I think there *SHOULD* be a compressed data stream and increased logging sample rate, but those to me aren't very important since I have tools that I've written, and the Author of UCC3 did an outstanding job of producing a tool that has all of the features I need to work on maps offline and generate basemaps.
Once your comfortable with the text screen and keyboard movements, I find it to be very easy to navigate.. What it lacks in "Pretty pictures" it makes up for in the ability to run on *ANY* PC, including a 386 laptop running QModem or Procomm and an old copy of DOS..
PLUS this is the only unit I know of that will interface with the MAC, and LINUX, and anything else you can throw at it.
Dec 4, 2004, 07:46 AM
#7
Originally Posted by EVOZerO
That's a good point Jack, but I see no problems if turboxs decided to added GUI to the Utec. If you want something bad enough, you'll make it work...simple as that... There are many more AEM EMS users than utec users, and I found no complain regarding compatibility.
In the computer world, there are people who are comfortable with computers and can work around anything thrown at them,
Then there are the other users who get stumped about 15 minutes after booting there machine..
Although a GUI is a good thing, I associate the AEM EMS (or any standalone) with the type of person (if he were a computer user) who would run linux.. Therefore most would likely be resourceful enough to run VMWare (Linux) or SoftPC (MAC)
I associate someone who runs a UTEC to being fairly computer literate, someone comfortable with computers but isn't always willing to tweak things to make them work, like a Power user running Windows.. These users want things to be quick and dirty, and work, but not always willing to figure it out.. In the computer world, generally their programmers, graphic artists, etc.. They know their hardware (PC or MAC) but just want things to work.
Then you have the other piggybacks, flashes, if they were computer users, they would be the Boot it and forget it people, they are not interested in making changes, they want to install it and it just works.. If their MAC users, they would become completely confused at the thought of running SoftPC just to get their GUI, if they were PC users, they would be calling me to ask what the heck happened to their PC asking me "Whats an ANY KEY".. Its not that they don't know, or don't want to know.. its just not what interests them.
But we digress..
Nothing like associating tuner tools with computers.. Eh?
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Dec 4, 2004, 08:16 AM
#9
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
I don't agree with that.. Say what you like, but thanks to the universal "VT100" interface it will work on ANY computer or handheld device capable of connecting to a serial port and offers VT100 terminal emulation.
HOWEVER with that said, I think there should be something like UCC3 offered to compliment the text only interface.. and I think there *SHOULD* be a compressed data stream and increased logging sample rate, but those to me aren't very important since I have tools that I've written, and the Author of UCC3 did an outstanding job of producing a tool that has all of the features I need to work on maps offline and generate basemaps.
Once your comfortable with the text screen and keyboard movements, I find it to be very easy to navigate.. What it lacks in "Pretty pictures" it makes up for in the ability to run on *ANY* PC, including a 386 laptop running QModem or Procomm and an old copy of DOS..
PLUS this is the only unit I know of that will interface with the MAC, and LINUX, and anything else you can throw at it.
HOWEVER with that said, I think there should be something like UCC3 offered to compliment the text only interface.. and I think there *SHOULD* be a compressed data stream and increased logging sample rate, but those to me aren't very important since I have tools that I've written, and the Author of UCC3 did an outstanding job of producing a tool that has all of the features I need to work on maps offline and generate basemaps.
Once your comfortable with the text screen and keyboard movements, I find it to be very easy to navigate.. What it lacks in "Pretty pictures" it makes up for in the ability to run on *ANY* PC, including a 386 laptop running QModem or Procomm and an old copy of DOS..
PLUS this is the only unit I know of that will interface with the MAC, and LINUX, and anything else you can throw at it.
I agree though.. I just would like some different colors, so everything doesnt blend together. When i am tuning by myself at night, it gets a bit tiresome to look at that hyperterm.
So ucc3 only works when not connected to the Utec? I havent gotten the chance to even try it yet..
Dec 4, 2004, 08:23 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Spec C
I like pretty pictures
I agree though.. I just would like some different colors, so everything doesnt blend together. When i am tuning by myself at night, it gets a bit tiresome to look at that hyperterm.
So ucc3 only works when not connected to the Utec? I havent gotten the chance to even try it yet..
I agree though.. I just would like some different colors, so everything doesnt blend together. When i am tuning by myself at night, it gets a bit tiresome to look at that hyperterm.
So ucc3 only works when not connected to the Utec? I havent gotten the chance to even try it yet..
Actually I think seeing some VT220 (Ansi color) in the interface might help..
UCC3 works while connected to the UTEC, it will log data for you (by TPS or ongoing) it will read and write maps to the UTEC..
It will not currently allow uploading/downloading and editing of Parameter features (essentially uploading and downloading these PARAM files is identical to the Map uploading and downloading, just figuring out the data is the hard part)
But it does everything else very well..
In fact UCC3 does a few things that are lacking in the text interface (that EvoZero pointed out as a shortcoming on the UTEC itself) You can take a baseline LOG, and map the timing into a new Timing Map, interpolate values, ramp and smooth values, etc.. This makes up for the few things that I couldn't easily do on the UTEC directly. If he added a correlation to the AFR and the injector duty cycle he likely could build a rough fuel mapper too...
It runs online and offline so you can edit your maps and examine your logs at your own convenience.
Last edited by MalibuJack; Dec 4, 2004 at 08:26 AM.
Dec 4, 2004, 08:31 AM
#11
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I think the Utec hypterminal interface works great, and it's not really that hard to tune with it. But I want something that have multiple functions simpliar to what offer in most standalone. If you cant use the computer and not comfortable with it, then I think you need to hire a tuner or someone that knows what the heck they are doing. By making everything too simplistic, you ended compromising too much of what make it great.
I dont mind tuning in in the hyperterminal, but i'm still a GUI believer. I dont believe that you have to make things complicated to make it work, but sometimes in life, ****s have to be complicated to work well... There are alot of PC users that are familiar with WIN platform; I dont see the real problem here... All public schools including elmemtary schools to colleges use WIN base computers. The average users dont use MAC or LINUX, UNIX system, but PC. Only programmers and grahpical designers use those systems above.
I really dont see what's the big deal in going to WIN base GUI...
I dont mind tuning in in the hyperterminal, but i'm still a GUI believer. I dont believe that you have to make things complicated to make it work, but sometimes in life, ****s have to be complicated to work well... There are alot of PC users that are familiar with WIN platform; I dont see the real problem here... All public schools including elmemtary schools to colleges use WIN base computers. The average users dont use MAC or LINUX, UNIX system, but PC. Only programmers and grahpical designers use those systems above.
I really dont see what's the big deal in going to WIN base GUI...
Dec 4, 2004, 08:34 AM
#12
I think at this point I don't see an issue with it either, HOWEVER the time spent developing a GUI is time taken away from providing better UTEC features.. I'll take better features over a GUI any day.
I do actually think this is the REAL reason that its not GUI, all the time is spent engineering useful features in the tool itself.
But at least you understood the gist of what I was saying.
Also keep in mind I tune with a HP Jornada PDA (Its windows HPC 2000 based, a pocket PC derivative) Its unlikely I'd be able to tune ANYTHING else out there effectively on a device like this, and it eliminates the need to keep a laptop computer in the car, I can log, analyze data, adjust maps, etc. any time I need to.. I can save the laptop for the hardcore tuning days..
Oh, and I have a radiomodem that can relay log data to a base station which then displays it in real time while at the track and within 2 miles, I can do this also with bluetooth on the dyno so no wires need ot be run.. I can even tune remotely if I had to.. Admittedly I am the exception to the rule, but thanks to the fairly low data rates I can do alot of these things easily that would be very difficult on other products, other products don't handle burst traffic well, and won't handshake correctly.. I know, I've tried..
I do actually think this is the REAL reason that its not GUI, all the time is spent engineering useful features in the tool itself.
But at least you understood the gist of what I was saying.
Also keep in mind I tune with a HP Jornada PDA (Its windows HPC 2000 based, a pocket PC derivative) Its unlikely I'd be able to tune ANYTHING else out there effectively on a device like this, and it eliminates the need to keep a laptop computer in the car, I can log, analyze data, adjust maps, etc. any time I need to.. I can save the laptop for the hardcore tuning days..
Oh, and I have a radiomodem that can relay log data to a base station which then displays it in real time while at the track and within 2 miles, I can do this also with bluetooth on the dyno so no wires need ot be run.. I can even tune remotely if I had to.. Admittedly I am the exception to the rule, but thanks to the fairly low data rates I can do alot of these things easily that would be very difficult on other products, other products don't handle burst traffic well, and won't handshake correctly.. I know, I've tried..
Last edited by MalibuJack; Dec 4, 2004 at 08:44 AM.
Dec 4, 2004, 09:57 AM
#14
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
Oh, and if TurboXS wants to implement a Blowthrough MAF sensor upgrade, I have one I can send you guys... It is my prototype blowthrough setup that I'm not using.
If the UTEC gained the features MalibuJack is talking about, I'd be interested...I'd also like to use my PocketPC for a similar interface.
Dec 4, 2004, 01:05 PM
#15
FYI, the blowthrough meter is a Pro-M and I am currently using their Karmann Converter, I personally think the Karmann converter portion can be easily integrated into the UTEC
I believe in a blowthrough meter over speed density for its drivability so much, that I'm willing to lend my spare hardware to TurboXS so they can do this..
If I had to pick ANY feature that we really need right now, it would be Idle Speed control and a few idle settings, and the ability to force open loop idle for tuning.. I'd like to see that.. Otherwise we're going to lose alot of UTEC users to standalones when they get cams or large injectors that have trouble idling at 850rpm since you can't get alot of adjustment from the BISS without it affecting other things. Plus I can tell that the UTEC is aware of the A/C compressor solenoid being on, so you can set two idle settings.. WE REALLY need this..
I believe in a blowthrough meter over speed density for its drivability so much, that I'm willing to lend my spare hardware to TurboXS so they can do this..
If I had to pick ANY feature that we really need right now, it would be Idle Speed control and a few idle settings, and the ability to force open loop idle for tuning.. I'd like to see that.. Otherwise we're going to lose alot of UTEC users to standalones when they get cams or large injectors that have trouble idling at 850rpm since you can't get alot of adjustment from the BISS without it affecting other things. Plus I can tell that the UTEC is aware of the A/C compressor solenoid being on, so you can set two idle settings.. WE REALLY need this..