rlazer5000

iTrader: (16)

Bump for some more info on this EMS

Precision Dyno

iTrader: (5)

PM Sent

nothere

iTrader: (23)

you might try looking through the posts over at the subi site, it has been around over there fo some time.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80


there should be ten or so long threads

rlazer5000

iTrader: (16)

^^ Thanks man, I actually did a search earlier on Yahoo and found a bunch of results linking to the subbie site

Element Tuning

We’ve tuned a few EVO 8 Hydras but have been focusing on the Subaru platforms now for over a year. I just haven’t had time to market or fully develop the base maps for the Evo platform but I’ve had excellent results with the few that were custom tuned. One used at GT30 turbo, 82 lbs injectors, HKS cams, etc and dynoed around 425 whp on pump fuel, another was mostly stock and wasn’t dynoed but turned out very well.

I currently have an EVO MR powered by the Element Hydra with an exhaust and HKS cams but I’ve just started tuning. So far the base settings we have work very well and I’ll just be fine tuning the fuel and spark maps. We’ll hit the dyno with this car on pump and C16 to see how the mapping fairs. Sometime in the next couple of weeks we’ll be tuning a similar setup to the first car mentioned and I’ll be able to put that base map to the test.

Now that the Element Subaru Hydras are well established we can start focusing on the EVO version.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com

rlazer5000

iTrader: (16)

Hey Phil, glad to have you on the EVO forums now. I've seen your threads and posts over on the subbie forums. I gathered a lot of info on the Hydra EMS and it looks really nice. Hopefully you can make some awesome numbers on some EVOs like you did on the Subbies!

Nez136

iTrader: (10)

Anyone else using this EMS yet?

locam

iTrader: (3)

Whooohooo thats my car. I am anxious to get on the dyno to see what type of power I am making.

caelin~

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

I am not sure the price differential between a piggy back system and a full blown engine management system like the Hydra, but if the difference is not too great, one should go for a full management.

Richard

rlazer5000

iTrader: (16)

It depends on what piggy-back unit because all of them range in price. Keep in mind that a full stand-alone EMS may seem a good deal compared to that of a piggy-back, but the stand-alone requires to be completely tuned, which takes a while, unless you get professionally tuned. Then it's all in your tuner's hands. I think a stand-alone is a good way to go, but you sacrifice a lot of time and money and lose some functionality at the same time (like OBDII).

Ninj0x

iTrader: (3)

For only ~500$ more then the XEDE, this seems like a way better system. It even has it's own SMART-like system. Vishnu and AEM might lose some costumers to this...

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

The XEDE and UTEC are both about half the price.. However, standalones have their purpose and you can't deny how adjustable they are. If you dont have to deal with OBD-II inspections in your location, and you can afford it, the standalone (if you can have it tuned correctly or do it yourself) is the way to go.

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

I didn't realise that that there are so many options there until a few weeks ago when I first joint this Forum.

I can see the advantage of a piggyback system, a low start-up cost and OBDII compliant. I think the tuning cost should be about the same for both systems provided a base map is supplied with the standalone that will run just be the same as the factorty ECU. That is how I image it to be.

I have come across many front-end piggy back system that runs into factory ECU constraits, we can lean or enrich fuel by altering the load sensor voltage but it will also have other side effects such as factory timing control. Changing "load" tables to cut fuel, it will also advances timing since the ECU sees it as light load. There are other side effects such as acceleration enrichment, air temperature compensation etc. Of course these "side effects" can be corrected by trimming the timing related sensors. But before you know, it will slowly clocking up your tuning time on the dyno - costly.

Since we cannot "see" what the factory management is doing when the "sensors" are being re-calibrated, more dyno time is needed since the engine has to be dynoed on the "tune and see" basis.

The stand-alone system many be more expesnsive to start but you know exactly where you are all the time - taking the "guessing" work out of the "tune and see" equations. OBDII can be restored by a simple re-plug-in the factory ECU and putting the factory ECU back.

I may be completely getting the wrong ideas here but please chime in and tell me more. I favour the stand alone on the above reasons - could be a bit naive...

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Well, the UTEC does actually directly control timing, fuel and boost directly, similar to how a standalone might.. But otherwise the piggybacks are subject to those constraints and can only be worked around using a reflash to compensate for it. The UTEC is the exception to the rule, and I am not aware of any other piggyback capable of that at the moment. Standalones have the advantage of lots of features, but that can also be a disadvantage since you (or your tuner) needs to be painfully aware of what is needed to get the car tuned and drivable, plus Emission and OBD-II related items...

Element Tuning

I just finished tuning an EVO 8 with an Element Tuning Hydra using an AMS GT3071 turbocharger, 82 lbs Bosch injectors, HKS cams, and alchohol injection. We stopped tuning at 401 WHP with 93 octane and water/alch injection.

Hopefully I'll get that MR on the dyno shortly after I return from a tuning trip.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com