Autronic PnP board for Evo IX?
Feb 10, 2007, 04:13 AM
#77
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Hello!
@Lugnuts: That's your opinion and in the way you read and understand my postings it might be right.
I'll add some background info to clear things up.
For the first step I planned a modified stock ecu (OpenEcu or ECUTEK) is ok. But I am not willing to pay an EKUTEK License and throw it away with the next hardware upgradestep and buy an autronics/AEM/Motec. So I decided to skip an OpenECU/ECUTek tune and buy a free programmable ecu in the first step. As the dealer has autronics ecus I was waiting for the autronics to be available. If he had agreed to tune a motec I had bought one, but he had not.
I'am not buying on price alone, I want good work and I know that good work has it's price and I am willing to pay that price.
I'd like to have all components (Hardware/Software) from one good tuner because when there are problems I can give him the car and easily say "Fix it."
I am waiting over 5 months now for the availability and I hate waiting.
Additionaly I said that most of the tuners are out for the money. What would you say if you drove a 650 mile trip the third time and there is still no solution for an existing problem? Bad luck? I'd say he has no plan on what he is doing and is only out for the money, easy as that
Another shop taking almost three complete weeks to find the defective cat in the downpipe, First week I got the car with "Everything is ok" back. Bull. Second week I had the EGT cable from the defi connected to the Oiltempsensor. Drove about half a mile when the defi control unit gave me a permanent beep. Real life, no joke.
You see, the problem is: You don't see at first sight if the tuner/shop is worth the money or not. You only see it if there are problems and the way he solves problems.
The IX is available quite a long time now. Motec has had a PnP board for the IX ages before the autronics. Autronics had at least 5 months more time for developing a board for the IX, and thats a lot.
I am not asking for problems with the autronic, I hope there are'nt any. I just don't want to say after 2 or 3 months with the autronics: "I shound have taken the motec"
@Lugnuts: That's your opinion and in the way you read and understand my postings it might be right.
I'll add some background info to clear things up.
For the first step I planned a modified stock ecu (OpenEcu or ECUTEK) is ok. But I am not willing to pay an EKUTEK License and throw it away with the next hardware upgradestep and buy an autronics/AEM/Motec. So I decided to skip an OpenECU/ECUTek tune and buy a free programmable ecu in the first step. As the dealer has autronics ecus I was waiting for the autronics to be available. If he had agreed to tune a motec I had bought one, but he had not.
I'am not buying on price alone, I want good work and I know that good work has it's price and I am willing to pay that price.
I'd like to have all components (Hardware/Software) from one good tuner because when there are problems I can give him the car and easily say "Fix it."
I am waiting over 5 months now for the availability and I hate waiting.
Additionaly I said that most of the tuners are out for the money. What would you say if you drove a 650 mile trip the third time and there is still no solution for an existing problem? Bad luck? I'd say he has no plan on what he is doing and is only out for the money, easy as that
Another shop taking almost three complete weeks to find the defective cat in the downpipe, First week I got the car with "Everything is ok" back. Bull. Second week I had the EGT cable from the defi connected to the Oiltempsensor. Drove about half a mile when the defi control unit gave me a permanent beep. Real life, no joke.You see, the problem is: You don't see at first sight if the tuner/shop is worth the money or not. You only see it if there are problems and the way he solves problems.
The IX is available quite a long time now. Motec has had a PnP board for the IX ages before the autronics. Autronics had at least 5 months more time for developing a board for the IX, and thats a lot.
I am not asking for problems with the autronic, I hope there are'nt any. I just don't want to say after 2 or 3 months with the autronics: "I shound have taken the motec"
Feb 10, 2007, 08:41 AM
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You see, the problem is: You don't see at first sight if the tuner/shop is worth the money or not. You only see it if there are problems and the way he solves problems.
The IX is available quite a long time now. Motec has had a PnP board for the IX ages before the autronics. Autronics had at least 5 months more time for developing a board for the IX, and thats a lot.
as far as MoTeC releasing their board first... well the SM4 has been out for a while, and it works fine with the EVO9, it just needs to be wired in... Autronic is a small company that builds and supports a great product... releases are made after all necessary testing has been done to ensure that the testing is not being carried out by the end user (like many other systems)... yes, the EVO9 unit took a little time to come out, but for us in the states, no one has been breaking down the door trying to purchase one (same would go for MoTeC EVO9 OEM800), and I would attribute this to cost of the unit (for general street car enthusiest)... aside from logging capacity, the Autronic SM4/SM4 based PnP offer everything that 99% of the users will ever need at a better price point with a strong, knowledgeable dealer network throughout the world...
I would be shocked if you were less than thrilled with your Autronic... I know many, many people who are very happy with their purchase and support with Autronic, for both Street and Competition cars.
-Franz
PS. fwiw, it is Autronic... not Autronics... i've wished for a while that the forum ame would change here... pet peev I guess
and just to get everyone excited... they are in the country and ready to ship...
Last edited by fatbastard; Feb 10, 2007 at 09:11 AM.
Feb 10, 2007, 11:01 AM
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bigleadfoot... franz's reply hit the nail on the head. You make a great point about the tuner/seller needing to know what they are doing. If you get good references from them then you will know more going in to the deal.
diablo, best thing to do is contact a dealer and outline your setup and what your present and future goals might be. And they can advise you from there.
Let me know if I can be of any help.
kevin
diablo, best thing to do is contact a dealer and outline your setup and what your present and future goals might be. And they can advise you from there.
Let me know if I can be of any help.
kevin
Feb 10, 2007, 03:35 PM
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well the two systems do the same thing, but i can decide on which to use for my street setup.
and there has to be a difference between the SM4 and PnP, no? They just make both for no reason (besides the plug and play feature that the PnP offers)?
and there has to be a difference between the SM4 and PnP, no? They just make both for no reason (besides the plug and play feature that the PnP offers)?
Feb 10, 2007, 04:10 PM
#82
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the PnP boards are made for GpN rules...
With the SMD based PnP boards, they had an addition of a dwell board to run the stock coils and tachometer... a few additional circuits to switch the MFI relay and for ACD (if equipped)... with the SM4 PnP, a circuit is added for the ACD, but the MFI relay appears to be run by an output (same as I usually do with a SM4 into an EVO (non PnP))...
-Franz
With the SMD based PnP boards, they had an addition of a dwell board to run the stock coils and tachometer... a few additional circuits to switch the MFI relay and for ACD (if equipped)... with the SM4 PnP, a circuit is added for the ACD, but the MFI relay appears to be run by an output (same as I usually do with a SM4 into an EVO (non PnP))...
-Franz
Feb 11, 2007, 04:48 AM
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There are 5 switch inputs (Clutch, Diag, A/C, PS, WS) all with straight thru / toggle / monostable / extend modes which means you can use the auto water spray switch for Launch or ALS arming. SM4 won't have those switch modes until v1.08. The plugin Evo 9 has 3 analogue inputs like the plugin Subaru board (SM4 has 2).
That is 28 outputs, 22 without injectors and coils, see if you can get an SM4 to do all that at the same time.
For FB Franz, the EFI relay is driven by a circuit on the board and the ACD signal is an output (O/P 5).
Feb 11, 2007, 12:03 PM
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The Evo 9 plugin board has 6 more outputs, 5 switch inputs (none shared with injector outputs like SM4) and 1 more analogue input that an SM4. With an SM4 on an Evo 9 you have to compromise some I/O whereas the Evo 9 board has outputs for Injectors (4), Idle stepper motor (4), Ignition coils (2), Fuel pump, Slow speed fuel pump relay, Condensor fan relays (2), Main fan controller, Air con relay, ACD signal, tacho, boost valves (2) (or 1 boost and 1 EGR), variable cam, O2 heater, Check engine light, water spray relay, water spray light, ALS valve, alternator control and purge valve (if you drop the last 2 you can have 4 ignition ouptuts).
There are 5 switch inputs (Clutch, Diag, A/C, PS, WS) all with straight thru / toggle / monostable / extend modes which means you can use the auto water spray switch for Launch or ALS arming. SM4 won't have those switch modes until v1.08. The plugin Evo 9 has 3 analogue inputs like the plugin Subaru board (SM4 has 2).
That is 28 outputs, 22 without injectors and coils, see if you can get an SM4 to do all that at the same time.
For FB Franz, the EFI relay is driven by a circuit on the board and the ACD signal is an output (O/P 5).
There are 5 switch inputs (Clutch, Diag, A/C, PS, WS) all with straight thru / toggle / monostable / extend modes which means you can use the auto water spray switch for Launch or ALS arming. SM4 won't have those switch modes until v1.08. The plugin Evo 9 has 3 analogue inputs like the plugin Subaru board (SM4 has 2).
That is 28 outputs, 22 without injectors and coils, see if you can get an SM4 to do all that at the same time.
For FB Franz, the EFI relay is driven by a circuit on the board and the ACD signal is an output (O/P 5).
Feb 12, 2007, 09:13 AM
#86
A few questions regarding the new PnP SM4 . . .
(1) I've read blurbs that said board can be fitted to EVO VIIIs with only minor attention. If this is the case (and there are obviously lots of VIIIs here), specifically how?
(2) Aside from the PnP board, are there any additional peripherals that need to be purchased?
(3) How is the compatibility with third party wideband O2 sensors (e.g. Innovate LC-1)?
Making such clear, concise information readily available would be *MOST* beneficial to those of us in the U.S. with EVO VIIIs, and would certainly bolster the sales and visibility of Autronic in the U.S.
(1) I've read blurbs that said board can be fitted to EVO VIIIs with only minor attention. If this is the case (and there are obviously lots of VIIIs here), specifically how?
(2) Aside from the PnP board, are there any additional peripherals that need to be purchased?
(3) How is the compatibility with third party wideband O2 sensors (e.g. Innovate LC-1)?
Making such clear, concise information readily available would be *MOST* beneficial to those of us in the U.S. with EVO VIIIs, and would certainly bolster the sales and visibility of Autronic in the U.S.
Feb 12, 2007, 09:36 AM
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As far as autotune there is no compatibility. For a third party wideband to read correctly on autronic the ground voltage has to be altered with a resistor network which will never exactly match the ground voltage of the autronic analyzer. For manual tuning or data logging a PLX or innovate with a resistor network will work, but the reading on autronic will be slightly off from actual. My plx wideband reads about .05-.1 lean from what the autronic analyzer reads. I checked them side by side on the car before I did any tuning using the values from the PLX. I have used both PLX with my own resistor network and Innovate with their autronic box. My PLX setup was much quicker than the Innovate. The Innovate wideband seemed a little laggy.
Feb 12, 2007, 09:46 AM
#88
Very well, I think that makes a solid, practical answer for (3).
Now, all we need are good answers for questions (1) and (2), and if those are satisfactory, I will consider taking the plunge. If I do, I will consider writing a proper tutorial, as in my experience, it is the lack of thorough, accurate, application-specific information that makes persons such as myself reluctant to purchase (or recommend the purchase) of certain devices.
Now, all we need are good answers for questions (1) and (2), and if those are satisfactory, I will consider taking the plunge. If I do, I will consider writing a proper tutorial, as in my experience, it is the lack of thorough, accurate, application-specific information that makes persons such as myself reluctant to purchase (or recommend the purchase) of certain devices.
Feb 12, 2007, 10:04 AM
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Very well, I think that makes a solid, practical answer for (3).
Now, all we need are good answers for questions (1) and (2), and if those are satisfactory, I will consider taking the plunge. If I do, I will consider writing a proper tutorial, as in my experience, it is the lack of thorough, accurate, application-specific information that makes persons such as myself reluctant to purchase (or recommend the purchase) of certain devices.
Now, all we need are good answers for questions (1) and (2), and if those are satisfactory, I will consider taking the plunge. If I do, I will consider writing a proper tutorial, as in my experience, it is the lack of thorough, accurate, application-specific information that makes persons such as myself reluctant to purchase (or recommend the purchase) of certain devices.
I have the Evo 8 PnP board and don't know of what if any changed were done with the switch to the SM4 Evo 9 PnP. I don't want to make any false assumptions and will leave 1 & 2 to FB - Franz
Feb 12, 2007, 10:05 AM
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A few questions regarding the new PnP SM4 . . .
(1) I've read blurbs that said board can be fitted to EVO VIIIs with only minor attention. If this is the case (and there are obviously lots of VIIIs here), specifically how?
(2) Aside from the PnP board, are there any additional peripherals that need to be purchased?
(3) How is the compatibility with third party wideband O2 sensors (e.g. Innovate LC-1)?
Making such clear, concise information readily available would be *MOST* beneficial to those of us in the U.S. with EVO VIIIs, and would certainly bolster the sales and visibility of Autronic in the U.S.
(1) I've read blurbs that said board can be fitted to EVO VIIIs with only minor attention. If this is the case (and there are obviously lots of VIIIs here), specifically how?
(2) Aside from the PnP board, are there any additional peripherals that need to be purchased?
(3) How is the compatibility with third party wideband O2 sensors (e.g. Innovate LC-1)?
Making such clear, concise information readily available would be *MOST* beneficial to those of us in the U.S. with EVO VIIIs, and would certainly bolster the sales and visibility of Autronic in the U.S.
No there is no other parts need as it is supplied with Internal mapsensor and a Autronic air temp sensor.
Mark