Anyone ever mess with Nitromethane injection?
Oct 24, 2005, 10:45 PM
#1
Anyone ever mess with Nitromethane injection?
Nitro has some benefits over methanol but how bad would it be for the engine? I got a fuel gallos of nitro just waiting to get poured in 
I was thinking of something allong the lines of 80% meth and 20% nitro. 
I was thinking of something allong the lines of 80% meth and 20% nitro.
Oct 24, 2005, 11:01 PM
#4
here is the definition on wikipedia
I have used nitro on RC panes for years to get a nice boost of power. I just wonder how a stock EVO would react. My pockets aren't deep enough to try hehe.
Nitromethane is a fuel that is used in racing, particularly in drag racing, to provide more power. When you hear the term "nitro-burning funny car" or "top-fuel dragster", that means that the engine burns nitromethane. Model aircraft fuel contains from 0% to 65% nitromethane.
Nitromethane's chemical formula is CH3NO2. For comparison, gasoline is typically C8H18. The oxygen in nitromethane's molecular structure means that nitromethane does not need as much atmospheric oxygen to burn -- part of the oxygen needed to burn nitromethane is carried in the fuel itself.
You need 14.6 kilograms of air to burn a kilogram of gasoline, and only 1.7 kilograms of air for the same amount of nitromethane to burn. A cylinder can only hold so much air on each stroke, and with that amount of air you can burn 8.7 times more nitromethane than gasoline. By pumping in 8.7 times as much nitromethane per stroke, you get about 2.4 times more power per stroke. Gasoline provides 18,000 BTU/pound (42 MJ/kg). Nitromethane provides 5,000 BTU/pound (12 MJ/kg). [1] The amount of nitromethane also provides some cooling, making the charge a bit denser and increasing power.
The flamefront does not move as quickly in nitromethane as it does in gasoline, meaning that there is not enough time to burn all the nitromethane in the cylinder when the engine is running at high RPM. When the exhaust valve opens, burning nitromethane flows out through the exhaust pipe. That is why Funny Cars and dragsters "spit fire" from their exhaust pipes.
Nitromethane's chemical formula is CH3NO2. For comparison, gasoline is typically C8H18. The oxygen in nitromethane's molecular structure means that nitromethane does not need as much atmospheric oxygen to burn -- part of the oxygen needed to burn nitromethane is carried in the fuel itself.
You need 14.6 kilograms of air to burn a kilogram of gasoline, and only 1.7 kilograms of air for the same amount of nitromethane to burn. A cylinder can only hold so much air on each stroke, and with that amount of air you can burn 8.7 times more nitromethane than gasoline. By pumping in 8.7 times as much nitromethane per stroke, you get about 2.4 times more power per stroke. Gasoline provides 18,000 BTU/pound (42 MJ/kg). Nitromethane provides 5,000 BTU/pound (12 MJ/kg). [1] The amount of nitromethane also provides some cooling, making the charge a bit denser and increasing power.
The flamefront does not move as quickly in nitromethane as it does in gasoline, meaning that there is not enough time to burn all the nitromethane in the cylinder when the engine is running at high RPM. When the exhaust valve opens, burning nitromethane flows out through the exhaust pipe. That is why Funny Cars and dragsters "spit fire" from their exhaust pipes.
Oct 24, 2005, 11:29 PM
#5
This subject has been discussed in detail in the Aquamist forums http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=451 . The trick is to keep the nitromethane from seperating in the water and alcohol mix. You also have to make sure that the Nitromethane doesn't lean out your A/F ratios to that danger point. Snow Performance has their own "NitroBooster" which is their own Nitromethane mixture that you can add to your 50/50 mix of water and methanol. According to them, a 50/50 mix of water and methanol is a good enough to keep their Nitromethane booster from seperating in the mixture.
Oct 27, 2005, 08:49 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by joeymia
here is the definition on wikipedia
I have used nitro on RC panes for years to get a nice boost of power. I just wonder how a stock EVO would react. My pockets aren't deep enough to try hehe.
I have used nitro on RC panes for years to get a nice boost of power. I just wonder how a stock EVO would react. My pockets aren't deep enough to try hehe.
Im more curious than argueing, but doesn't it seem more feasible that nitro would be the higher BTU output per specfici weight or volume? You said gasoline puts out 18,000 BTU/kilo versus 5000btu/kilo for nitro....did I miss something?
Oct 27, 2005, 09:01 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by feldguy
Im more curious than argueing, but doesn't it seem more feasible that nitro would be the higher BTU output per specfici weight or volume? You said gasoline puts out 18,000 BTU/kilo versus 5000btu/kilo for nitro....did I miss something?
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Oct 27, 2005, 09:12 PM
#8
I asked Dynoflash Al about this when he first started messing with alcohol injection. He thought it sounded interesting and he said he would check into it. Never heard anything else about it though.
From what is said above about not burning fully and shooting flames out the exhaust port I don't think running straight Nitromethane on a turbo car would be a good idea. You would probably fry your turbo very quickly.
EVOlutionary
From what is said above about not burning fully and shooting flames out the exhaust port I don't think running straight Nitromethane on a turbo car would be a good idea. You would probably fry your turbo very quickly.
EVOlutionary
Oct 27, 2005, 09:17 PM
#9
I actually tried this for awhile in my first alky injection setup.. I picked up a second in my ET and a few mph in the traps.. But I ended up doing more harm then good and thought I had burned a piston (ended up destroying a plug and through I did more damage)
If its done right it can be amazing, but I can't afford to experiment like that..
Snow Performance has Nitro Booster however you can buy the 15 or 20% combination from a hobby shop for alot cheaper, but you have to make sure you get the stuff WITHOUT the castor oil in it (unless your alky kit needs the pump lubrication which mine did at the time)
Oh.. and it smells FOUL and is a dead giveaway if you know what it smells like..
If its done right it can be amazing, but I can't afford to experiment like that..
Snow Performance has Nitro Booster however you can buy the 15 or 20% combination from a hobby shop for alot cheaper, but you have to make sure you get the stuff WITHOUT the castor oil in it (unless your alky kit needs the pump lubrication which mine did at the time)
Oh.. and it smells FOUL and is a dead giveaway if you know what it smells like..
Oct 27, 2005, 09:23 PM
#11
Well, its not used in place of your regular fuel in this application... Its used in the same way as Methanol is with an alky injection kit.. But the difference is that in addition to the cooling and fueling properties of methanol, its also an oxygen carrier and fuel, which means its like raising the boost on your car even more, hence the reason it runs leaner..
Oct 27, 2005, 09:30 PM
#12
MJ,
When you were using the nitromethane did you use colder plugs, or just the stock ones? You really gained a whole second in the 1/4 without changing anything except adding nitromethane? Good stuff!
I used to race quads and I know a couple guys who tried the nitro. They were not too bright on tuning, so needless to say it ran awesome for a couple passes at the dragstrip, then blew up.
EVOlutionary
When you were using the nitromethane did you use colder plugs, or just the stock ones? You really gained a whole second in the 1/4 without changing anything except adding nitromethane? Good stuff!
I used to race quads and I know a couple guys who tried the nitro. They were not too bright on tuning, so needless to say it ran awesome for a couple passes at the dragstrip, then blew up.
EVOlutionary
Oct 27, 2005, 09:37 PM
#13
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I would love to see how this turns out if someone has the ***** to possibly blow up a motor or hurt it to see how it reacts as a methanol substitute...
Oct 27, 2005, 10:02 PM
#14
I ran two steps colder.. Only the car ran poorly for daily driving with the plugs that cold.. You will have to retune your car to run this if you really want to experiment.. I didn't realize how lean the car would end up running at the time...
It wasn't quite a full second, I ran a best of 12.42 (don't recall the trap speed) on a basically stock engine with the buschur stage 3 components at the time (no fuel pump, cams, or injectors) and was experimenting with an early methanol kit.. I subsequently ran an 11.63@116.. Made 3 passes and the car started misfiring badly.. Never ran the car again after that but I do drive the car every day since then.. I'm building a new motor so I haven't been overly concerned wth the damage I might have caused as long as my compression is good, but I did burn up the electrodes on two plugs and suspected I burned a piston (no compression issue, but I saw what looked like pitting and scorching using a borescope) I have not yet pulled the head to see since I have a replacement motor going together for next year. Keep in mind that all this experimenting happened last year, and I've had too much going on to really do alot this summer plus my car was rear-ended and out of commission for awhile until I got it back a few weeks ago.. Now I have a whole new list of stuff to do on the car and an article to write.
I can't in good conscience recommend playing with this unless your willing to blow a motor in your experiments.. It will happen eventually if your experimenting.. But I have to admit that this was a pretty significant power adder if I hadn't run lean..
It wasn't quite a full second, I ran a best of 12.42 (don't recall the trap speed) on a basically stock engine with the buschur stage 3 components at the time (no fuel pump, cams, or injectors) and was experimenting with an early methanol kit.. I subsequently ran an 11.63@116.. Made 3 passes and the car started misfiring badly.. Never ran the car again after that but I do drive the car every day since then.. I'm building a new motor so I haven't been overly concerned wth the damage I might have caused as long as my compression is good, but I did burn up the electrodes on two plugs and suspected I burned a piston (no compression issue, but I saw what looked like pitting and scorching using a borescope) I have not yet pulled the head to see since I have a replacement motor going together for next year. Keep in mind that all this experimenting happened last year, and I've had too much going on to really do alot this summer plus my car was rear-ended and out of commission for awhile until I got it back a few weeks ago.. Now I have a whole new list of stuff to do on the car and an article to write.
I can't in good conscience recommend playing with this unless your willing to blow a motor in your experiments.. It will happen eventually if your experimenting.. But I have to admit that this was a pretty significant power adder if I hadn't run lean..
Oct 30, 2005, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
I asked Dynoflash Al about this when he first started messing with alcohol injection. He thought it sounded interesting and he said he would check into it. Never heard anything else about it though.
From what is said above about not burning fully and shooting flames out the exhaust port I don't think running straight Nitromethane on a turbo car would be a good idea. You would probably fry your turbo very quickly.
EVOlutionary
From what is said above about not burning fully and shooting flames out the exhaust port I don't think running straight Nitromethane on a turbo car would be a good idea. You would probably fry your turbo very quickly.
EVOlutionary
being a one man band there is a limit to how much I can do in one day - its still on my list
Basically - with a methanol injection kit you should be able to add a SMALL amount of nitro and pick up some power
The issue is how much to add and what tuning changes to make
Nitro Propane gets added to the gas tank and may have similar benefits
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