speedracer2169

May I as why for those of us wondering? I like my NEO its bling for now. I'll ditch it though when I start to get the serious work though

xenoturkey

Go with tuning technologies if you are local. They are pretty busy, and ive got questionable service due to the volume of traffic, but as to the question of them knowing their ****, they are top notch.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Well, unfortunately, to those who know anything about tuning, it is not considered bling. However, I hear that car show judges think it's cool...

chaotichoax

iTrader: (149)

vboy I'm curious also why you call Warrtalon's post "BS"...yet you give no valid explanation

that's just stupid if you ask me

144mph

iTrader: (19)

the short answer is that you're probably better off with Al's flash though it's not nearly as simple of a decision as a lot of these guys would have you to believe. PM me if you want to hear a more thorough explanation.

vboy425

iTrader: (19)

just messing with your ***

Evo_Jay

iTrader: (17)

SAFC/Neo, Emanage, F-con - BIG

ECUFlash is the way to go nowadays.....

-Flash yourself, no down time
-Make changes if you feel the need
-Loading a race gas map is easy and fast
-Can flash back to stock if you need to

Speedracer, if you really I have a Neo on your IX, I feel sorry for it.
Not that I hate SAFC/Neo (Im gettin one for the S2K, only two options are that and AEM),
just when you cant control timing and MIVEC, your basiclly saying you just want a modded car, not a truely powerful one.

bhcevo

The question is not what to use.

The question is who is going to do your tune. Then go with what they recommend.

SAFC (with injectors) can make good power, so can flash. If you are socal local like I am then yeah lots of the good local tuners at one time relied on SAFC preferentially for various reasons. Times have changed and these days tuning tech, dr gray etc. they all can, have and do tunes (dyno and otherwise) using SAFC, ecuflash, EMS even XEDE. Call em up, explain what you want and see what they say.

You'll usually want someone local to do your tune. Because everything else being equal, a guy who sits in your car and drives it before and after the tune and listens to it etc.. is gonna do a better/safer job than the guy who doesn't. You also want the guy to stick around so you can come back in two weeks or a month or whatever and have the same guy tweak things cause you added/changed mods or something is going wrong or whatever. These two points are also why
doing the tune yourself is such a compelling option, see below.

If you're gonna do the tune yourself then absolutley no question about it go ecuflash and evoscan for logging. Get yourself a wideband while you're at it.

This is what I do and I could't be more pleased with it. I spend the hours and hours logging and experimenting that no paid tuner can afford to do, and its this time spent that makes the difference between an ok tune and an awesome running tune. Or the difference between a marginally unsafe tune and a robust, all-weather tune.

If you're gonna spend $150+ for a mail-in flash then spend an extra $50 for an hours worth of tuning and dyno-time at tuning tech and have them give you a custom reflash, dyno customised on your car. They'll probably just use their own tactrix cable and ecuflash program on their own laptop so you dont even hafta shell out for that. Or if you dont wanna do tuning tech then go harman motive or get dr. gray to do it on someone's dyno.


Do yourself a favor and spend the price of a mail-in on dyno-time and hands on tuning service.

I don't know what Al is charging for his custom tune visit but see if its competitive with what local guys want for the same service (custom reflash on a dyno).

With ecuflash widely available for peanuts I think Al's e-flash service is about what his remote flash is worth these days. $50 for his expert guess of something that will make safe power over stock. Use it as is or use it as a starting point for further modification.

I hope noone takes anything I said as Al bashing, cause it aint.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

here's my input. i'm a socal boy so take it with a grain of salt.

firstly, you've already done the cost value analysis, this is very good. if you wanna hear waht scot would say... it would be: there's no need to flash the ecu for tuning, you can tune with the safc and it's real time. mucking with the factory fuel trims is just extra work (is fact), but if you wanna do it then that's up to you and he can help you with that too.

there are definitely things that scot says the flash is necessary for. changing rev limit, removing fuel cut (although he wouldn't do that, he'd tell you to get the injectors and safc). etc etc.

now this is where i'll interject with the REASON socalevo has a deep rooted hatred for flashers and why we now fully support it because we now have an open source software and the control is in OUR HANDS! flashing in the evo community has always been the number ONE way to take people's money without putting in due effort. socal is one of the epicenters for dsm tuning and we're a buncha cheap mother****ers here that love to do our own stuff and when we **** it up we hand it to roadrace and john and mike poke fun at us and say stuff like, so much for savin' money huh? but that's our community. don't like it? go learn less elsewhere. the fact that there have been so many complaints and so many unresolved issues and now there's CONFIRMATION that flash tuning services were bunk and basically poor business practice is the reason for the deep rooted hatred.

keep in mind the safc neo only holds 1 map. the classic safc II is more desireable as it holds 2 maps and you can get one used. interpolation between rpm points is just fine.

now for a little tidbit that i'm prolly gonna get railed for. notwithstanding being a socal boy i'll try to present this as unbiased information. but it seems that multiple people now equipt with their tactrix cable have found that their flashes from a certain well known tuner end up looking very poor once logged.

the symptoms are a fast ramp in timing on the low end which works out until peak torque where then the fuel trims go pig rich as stock and timing continues to ramp but at the cost of severe knock counts and pulled timing across the board.

all you have to do is search on either evom or socalevo for the phrase "safer tune makes more power" and that's all you'll find. so would i pay someone else to **** up my tune that i could just very well easily **** up myself and get the same results? would i pay someone so i could scratch my own ***? prolly not.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

the fact is... until a certain point, there's no need for that stuff. there's plenty of work arounds. but if you wanna do it then it's up to you.

btw having indirect control over timing is ok. it will mimick the stock timing curve. it won't be precise but then again paying a certain well known tuner to do your timing tables doesn't end up doin' that hot either.

of course you need a laptop for it all. no one carries a laptop in the car all the time. and if they do, they'll be without a laptop in their car sooner than later, either through theft or being tired of carrying it around.

speedracer2169

I dont have a 9 and if I wanted a more powerful car I whould have a GT35R in it already.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Triny, those things you claimed are not true. Unless you were indirectly referring to some other tuner, the one you were trying to imply does NOT quickly ramp up timing in the low end and definitely not at peak torque. In fact, it ramps DOWN as boost builds (as it should), holds at a nice steady rate for 1500-2000rpm (this is where an SAFC requires injectors to do the same thing), then ramps back up WITHOUT KNOCK, and no, the fuel trims do NOT go pig rich like stock. Do you really believe that's how the tunes are made?? What you claimed is completely wrong and misleading to newbies who don't know any better. There are countless dynographs with associated AFRs showing that what you claimed is nowhere near the truth. There are less posted timing graphs, but I logged my base flash right after getting it, and the timing was just like it always is...flat but strong in the low-end/peak torque range, then a gradual climb without any pulled timing or knock on the way to redline. The AFRs start leaner for lean spool, then richen (not rich, just richen) in the mid-range where we see peak cylinder pressure, then lean back out a little up top where the boost tapers - it's all by design and works extremely well.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

oh yeah the said tuner has a certain characteristic of flattening the high and low octane maps together.

also, it has nothing to do with what i believe, i don't believe anything. this is what people have FOUND... so it doesn't even have anything to do with ME.

lcakes05

I Like The Utec Got 39whp Out Of It On Dynodynamics Dynomoeter Which Reads Alot Lower Than A Dynojet For A $1000

kimletrim

iTrader: (18)

Oh boy.....hear we go again...

My advice: Since you are in Socal, get the SAFCII with injectors, have Scot Gray tune it or Tuning Tech, or even C-Spec and you will not be disappointed. If you later decide to fine tune, you can do that yourself. those who dismiss the SAFC have not used it to its potential, IMHO.

If you a little bit more advendurous or knowledgable about runing with the stock ECU, go ahead and tune with the ECU Flash