Vivid Racing

iTrader: (98)

Try his settings, but he is probably right...the dyno numbers are different.

Shahul X

iTrader: (3)

I will.... I think Im too lean right now....im running Bushurs settings, maybe a bit more aggresive

-Shahul

Shahul X

iTrader: (3)

oh, plus I cant do those settings since I have 8 points on the S-AFC 1.... not 9 or so like the AFC2... plus I can only do 500rpm differances for my points

-Shahul

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

I find this thread informative, but no enough so. I've got the numbers furnished with my SAFC2, but there is a lot that unit can do and show!!
How in the world is one to set the thing up properly? there are lots of screens to navigate through and the thing poses alot of questions.
For instance when selecting the car... The 4 cyl is simple, but then there are other settings too.....
I would like to read about how to set the SAFC with all it's settings before I just drive it with a number of high throttle settings at some given %..... There seems to be lots of different settings used by lots of folks... Surely not all all safe? Or beneficial? .....

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Yah, I suppose this info is really only useful if your already familiar with the S-AFC's menus.. basically there are lo-throttle, hi-throttle, NE-Points, etc.. Its all documented but the docs aren't easy to follow.. MOST of the s-afc settings only address the high throttle points, and most have adjustments at 3000rpm and higher.. and for many of us, the high-throttle point is at 60%, though I've seen several with points higher than that.. and one or two with theirs set lower..

Basically that 60% value means that your throttle position switch needs to read at 60% open before the S-AFC adjusts the max value of the MAF signal (Edit: The adjustment happens between the low-throttle and hi-throttle points, but the value is at its max at the high point - thanks Mark), keep in mind that with the evo, the 100% open TPS isn't really where your foot is planted to the floor, its somewhere around 2/3's to the floor.. thats why these values are important to set and pay attention to. it more or less reflects the point at which the car switches from closed loop operation to open loop maps.

Any high-rpm setting (7000rpm or so) with 93 octane with more than -19% compensation is going to run extremely lean.. I wouldnt go more than 16% with 91 octane.. how you taper from 0% through that point is going to depend on your driving style and how your cars modifications respond..

(EDIT: as mentioned in another post, I think it was determined that the point the engine goes from CLOSED loop operation, to open loop is approx 30% TPS reading.. This may or may not be accurate, I can verify this on a data logger at some point in the future)

On a car with stock boost, you can actually lean it out a bit more than 19% if your running 94 octane, But I wouldn't attempt it until you can see what your actual mixture (With a wideband a/f) and egt's are..

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Oh, and just so you know.. just installing and initializing the S-AFC will result in a stock setting, its only when you adjust the lo-throttle or high-throttle compensation that it alters the MAF signal.. a positive value makes it richer, and a negative value makes it leaner.

I wish I could give you step by step instructions, but I don't have the new S-AFCII to document it.. HOWEVER, the first two items to set are

Low-Throttle at about 30-35%
High-Throttle at (for most) 60%

NE-Points can be set for 500 rpm increments through 7500rpm
(2000,2500,3000,3500,4000,4500,5000,5500,6000,6500 ,7000,7500) I think that's 12 points..

(Edit: NE-Points on the S-AFCII are at 200rpm increments, not 500)

You can now take the values that you've seen here and map them as closely to an NE point in that list.. the points in between you can average the difference if needed.. any below the area you start compensating, around 3000 rpm, you can just leave at 0.. but don't leave any points between at 0...

I hope this helps you translate the settings.


If you plan on modifying the settings yourself after you have a baseline, I cannot begin to emphasize how important using a A/F Gauge (Wideband is better) and EGT probe.. You also need to have some form of performance benchmark to determine if what your doing is improving things, otherwise tuning it yourself is pointless.. We do this at the track pretty frequently..

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Oh.. another point.. I think the reason why nobody tunes the low throttle points is because the ECU compensates in closed loop and will always run more or less the same after it learns that the maf signal has altered..

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

Thanks a lot man, I really appreciate the input. I'm finding out more information and I hope I'll soon get enough confidence to hook it up (with my nifty Fields harness) and start running the car. I'm also still waiting to get my gauges installed before I really do any "tuning"..... Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

Eric Lyublinsky

iTrader: (5)

Yes in closed loop the ECU it using the front 02 for fuel control. The ECU is trying to run 14.7 A/F for fuel economy. The When TPS goes 60% it hit open loop that is controled by the MAF. It makes senes to us the hi at 60% cross over. Starting to tune at 2000 rpm is a good Idea to help spool up. But be care full to not take to much fuel out at peak TQ because that is most likely the highest VE the motor will run.

Eric

QuantumEVO

iTrader: (12)

BTW, although the SAFC-2 has 12 points, they aren't in increments of 500 but rather 200. You cannot select 2500, 3000, 3500, etc. etc. You'd have to do 2000, 2600, 3000, 3600, etc. etc.
Also let me clarify as mispoken statement by MalibuJack.
Regarding HI and LO throttle setpoints and when the SAFC is modifying the MAF signal. Say you are using LO=30% and HI=60%. Let us also say that the LO settings are all zero as they should be (unless you have injectors or bumped fuel pressure). If you are at a particular rpm that is exactly where an NE point is, say we are at 3600 rpm and you have an NE HI value at 3600 rpm that is set to -4%. If you are above 30% throttle and below 60% (between the LO and HI points) it DOES modify the signal. It uses linear interpolation. In other words, if you are at 45% throttle (halfway between the HI and LO) it splits the difference; -2%. If you are at 30% it uses the LO setting; 0% adjustment. If you are at 60% throttle it uses the HI setting; -4%. Anywhere below the LO setting, it uses the LO setting. Anywhere above the HI setting, it uses the high setting.
I hope this makes it a bit clearer.
Also note that the SAFC will not alter when your car switches from closed to open loop. You do not want to try to alter the MAF signal at any time while it is in closed loop (at this point in your mod stage). If you do so, it will simply correct it out. The LO throttle setpoint should be set at or above your closed/open transition. Doing otherwise can be used for some more complicated stuff but there is no need to mess with that anytime soon.
Also, don't tune to an Automete A/F Ratiometer. It isn't good enough for that. EGT is good as a safety point but it alone will not protect you either. Borrow/Buy/Rent a wideband and do it right. Going with -19% is a very serious change; especially at 91 octane.

Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com

Stinkapuss

iTrader: (10)

I wish I knew when the ecu switches from closed loop to open. The safc2 manual has recommended settings and says to set the low-high to 45/65 for an Evo7.

When I tuned my Evo on the dyno with a wideband, anything over -16% didn't do anything to the fuel. The a/f ratio stayed the same.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Good point Mark.. Like I said earlier, I didn't have an S-AFC-II but I was under the impression that you could set the points in either 200 or 500 rpm increments.. I personally run 93 or higher octane exclusively therefore 19% isn't an issue for me. And I should have mentioned that there was interpolation and not a sudden change, I just assumed it was an obvious point, at the HI-Throttle point, the MAX compensation would be that setting.. I actually chose to keep the settings at the highest torque level fairly close to what most have recommended because I don't have a totally adequate method of measuring the a/f other than the narrowband o2 voltage..

I think for some it may be necessary to do an ECU Reset before you make any new changes just in case the ECU chose to remember any timing or alternate map settings. I noticed I had to do that when I switched settings from -16% to -19% otherwise on a run-to-run basis, you probably won't see much difference.. also every car seems to like these adjustments differently.

I'm by no means an expert.. I've just learned by experimentation and listening to others guidelines.. I'm just trying to regurgitate what I've learned for other's sake..

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Mark, I Edited my earlier posts to correct the misinformation so nobody hurts anything.. I'm fairly comfortable with my settings on an S-AFC so I'm glad someone with a S-AFCII Chimed in..

QuantumEVO

iTrader: (12)

I installed and used them but I don't own them on my own EVO. Many of my local customers use eManage to gain timing control as well. The midrange can benefit from additional timing and the top end can use a little. I haven't really pushed it much until I get a knock monitor in.

Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

Gentlemen, this thread is really getting good now. We need his kind of information to use the SAFC2 to it's full capacity. I also wish there was more about the other functions such as how and why to do the voltage check and how to interpret and use the resultant information.
This might seem obvious to some folks, but certainly can be a huge puzzle to others. I hope we get information in here from people who are very confident and have lots of experience with these types of things.... Personally, I'd be happy to pay for professional advise, etc. But it can be impossible to find nearby. The next best solution is to get good, solid, proven info from experienced tuners...

Thanks everyone for the input