sdhotwn

iTrader: (2)

Alrighty... the purpose of this thread is to try and provide a place for intelligent discussion and learning of the finer points of turbo systems and what different system add - ons achieve and functionally do. This isn't a thread for "What is a blow-off valve and where is it in the system" type questions. This is also not a thread for RRM turbo versus others or turbo versus supercharger or the like. This is not for discussion about turboing OTHER cars.. . this is for our 2.0L Lancer and a chance to learn how we can choose what we want to do in our own individual turbo setups. This way we can learn from some of the more advanced setups being run right now (Like Boe's, Hobie's, Liquid's, Kontra's and a host of others)

Thread Rules:
1)Stay on topic
2)Discuss Turbo's and turbo add-on's for 2.0L lancer only
3)Provide as accurate and VENDOR FREE information as possible.

Some good topics to covers for starters:
Turbo Efficiencies and boost matching
FMU's
Stand-alone's
Fuel rail configurations and injector size choice
Boost Controllers
Recirculating vs Bypass BOV setups
Knock management
Air/Fuel ratio pro/con's numbers

Etc.

Lets make it worthwhile!

MODS: Please sticky if you think it worthile, and please delete any portion that runs off topic. Thanks - Steve

sdhotwn

iTrader: (2)

To start things out.... I want to post some information I stole from a post by Boe in regards to T3/T4 turbo versus T28

Edited a bit for sense:

Turbos have distinct differences... a BIG T-28 which is used in the RRM kit is capable of 22 thermally peak psi...meaning after that it is getting to hot to flow to be advantagious.... also the BIG T-28 has a cfm rating of 405cfm at peak pressure...this is supportive of 450HP. A T3/4 are different in peak thermals and are capable of 25psi. Althought they are rated at only 348cfm without little tricks. They are capable of 500hp applications and tend to spool earlier than the Big T-28 if tricked out. Many intracacies in the turbo world lead to arguments/debates over which turbo is better in the turbo side of the house. End result is a car with 9psi intercooled on T3/4 put 200whp and 205wtq down where a 7psi non-intercooled on Big T-28 put 200whp and 217wtq down. My best after intercooled with all my stuff at 9psi has been 225whp/5450rpm at 237wtq/4770rpm. Thus by looks it seems Big T-28 is better?? At this point yes but as you get closer to the peak efficience one will taper off(Big T-28) and the other will gain(T3/4). This is where application comes in and boost level maxes need to be set. If your going for all out 30+psi you'll need to view a turbo for that application... if you want 12psi max then thats another turbo issue.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/guidelines.html

(Turbonetics' opinions on picking the proper turbo.)

http://www.turbofast.com.au/flowmaps.html

(Awesome, awesome, awesome site imo.)

Take a look, read around. I picked the T3 Super 60 based on the turbine and compressor sizes and ease of finding replacement parts should I ever have a problem. Problem with the compressor side? Replace it with a rebuilt T3 (cheap). Problem with the turbine side? Replace it with a rebuilt T3 even cheaper. Or better yet, rebuild it myself. I find the T3/04 hybrid would be more efficient at higher boost levels, but the compressor side is a bit big for my needs. I wanted to buy one turbo and not have to replace it.

uranium9v

iTrader: (3)

So if most RRM turbo kits are only boosting around 7-9psi, is there a smaller turbo that will boost quicker and get to max boost quicker than the T28, but has a lower max psi? It seems only boosting to 9 psi on a possible 22psi is a waste of useable turbo...

sdhotwn

iTrader: (2)

From my understanding T25 is the next step down from the T28. I do not know what it's capabilities are and if it would fit the proper application as far as peak efficiency and cfm.

It isn't always about what the max psi that will be used is. Often a turbo is chosen solely on trying to match your standard running/racing boost level with the peak efficiency of the turbo compressor.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

The T25. Learn to read compressor charts (assuming you can't already). You'll see the overall differences much more clearly. I purposely chose something that would not spool immediately. Not counting the present time with my exhaust leak, I spooled way earlier than I ever intended however.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

First post in this thread:

http://www.siouxfallsracing.com/foru...px?PostID=2075

If you can get back issues of turbo mag they did a great write up on it as well (in addition, there's a good article on turbo health and some diagnosis). This is the issue:

http://www.turbomagazine.com/toc/0304tur_toc/index.html

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

And here's a sample compressor map of the turbo I'm using.

sdhotwn

iTrader: (2)

Andrew,

What are you using for your fuel system overall? I looked through your profile and I know you are running large injectors and a big pump.

I guess one area of turbo's I'm pretty sketchy on is what capabilities you gain from your fuel system and what the different fuel system options are. I know that an FMU essentially boosts fuel pressure (say from stock 36 psi to 100 psi) and then the poor fuel pump has to try and keep up with that. But what the purpose is in doing so I don't quite understand. Granted I realize that you need a considerable amount more fuel to maintain your a/f ratios over naturally aspirated and you additionally need to toss in some extra for good measure to keep the pistons cooled. Typically shooting for an a/f of about 12.2 -12.8 with 12.8 being pretty lean in some cases.

I know that there are "piggyback" systems available for some cars that allow you to run your injectors at stock pressure levels and thus get you around some of the need to have a bigger fuel pump.

I have also heard of adding additional "fuel rails" and having twice as many injectors in order to come up with the necessary fuel load.

Are there other possibilities that I'm missing in that department? And how does that in the end add up to being able to achieve more horsepower? Or are we still limited mostly by boost, timing, knock, and internals strength?

sdhotwn

iTrader: (2)

Something new to me that is worth a post

T28 turbos; T25 turbine + T3 compressor = T28

So which T3 compressor is on the T28?? I'm seeing several series's for the T3 compressor.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, the FMU raises fuel pressure. It's there because my FP was dropping off under 5+ lbs of boost...and still is. Royal PITA. I don't know what I'm doing with fuel in the future. I'm still having problems and I'm unable to do anything about it at the moment.

My entire fuel system:

AEM EMS (standalone ECU)
2g Walbro 255lph fuel pump
440cc injectors (apparently from a WRX w/ different O-rings and I don't know the stock fuel pressure on the WRX or the Lancer so I'm having a difficult time trying to make certain they're correctly accounted for in the AEMPro software)
Vortech FMU (I don't even know what disc is in it at present, but I believe it's the 12:1 and that could be the reason I'm still going lean if the FP is having trouble keeping up)

I'm pretty sure that's everything that's in there atm.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

Most likely the smallest trim (the 40).

LancerCALI88

iTrader: (2)

anybody else with a custom turbo set up wanna post how they are running it?

LancerCALI88

iTrader: (2)

Hobie what kind of header is that?? where can i pick up one of those?

sdhotwn

iTrader: (2)

As I don't fully understand the whole concept of why the FMU boosts pressure so much... my question/advice is probably of little use....

But could you get a different FMU or disks for it to reduce it to a 10:1 or 8:1?? I have also heard that you can hook up your vaccuum hoses to the FMU in such a manner that you can actually downgrade the ratio slightly. Some times by as much as 2 (12:1 going to 10:1)

It just seems that with as large of injectors as you have, and with that big of a fuel pump that you shouldn't have any reason to be falling lean under boost.