Blown turbo...still??
Sep 29, 2010, 09:22 PM
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Blown turbo...still??
I just recived my TD05HR 16g turbo rebuild kit. I put the kit together and rebuilt the turbo, even gave it a full warming up before boosting a little. Re-installed the turbo and STILL GETTING LIGHT BLUE SMOKE!! The smoke is very light bluish..Its almost a cloudy white but i know its not a head gasket as when the turbo was off the car no smoke was present. The smoke comes and goes when it pleases while cruizing, except at idle i can hold a RPM and it will smoke really bad.. Im baffled..After the rebuild there was no shaft play, everything seated correctly..im thinking it may be something im doing wrong? The oil feed line is the line on top of the turbo (when installed on the car) and the return line is the big 5/8th right below the feed line right? Is the turbo maybe burning some water, is this why its a light color? I have the line on the left side of the turbo (turbo installed, looking at it from intake side) going to the throttle body, and the one on the right side of the turbo going to the hard water pipe (where the TB coolant hose would normally connect to) Are these backwards or something?? Im confused.. im hoping its something i may have missed, i hope i dont need a new turbo.. 
Sep 29, 2010, 09:46 PM
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well just from a google search of light blue smoke from turbo i have gathered a few things...
what is the compression of the cylinders?
pcv system clean?
checked valves and valve guides in head?
still leaking oil into the intake from the cold side of the turbo?
thats a good list of things to start...
josh
what is the compression of the cylinders?
pcv system clean?
checked valves and valve guides in head?
still leaking oil into the intake from the cold side of the turbo?
thats a good list of things to start...
josh
Sep 30, 2010, 03:47 AM
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well just from a google search of light blue smoke from turbo i have gathered a few things...
what is the compression of the cylinders?
pcv system clean?
checked valves and valve guides in head?
still leaking oil into the intake from the cold side of the turbo?
thats a good list of things to start...
josh
what is the compression of the cylinders?
pcv system clean?
checked valves and valve guides in head?
still leaking oil into the intake from the cold side of the turbo?
thats a good list of things to start...
josh
Sep 30, 2010, 05:15 AM
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Hey JRR,
So i found something interesting, let me know if you think this is possible somehow. I noticed today when i started my car and it was cold, there was a small oil puddle under my car...i was like ****!!! opened the hood, no smoke or anything but i noticed that the feed line ontop was leaking oil, it was puddled up ontop of the turbo, It stopped dripping so i let it warm up, i squeezed the feel line hose to make sure it was still getting oil, it was..as the engine temp was cold to moderatly hot, while driving i would smoke pretty decent trails
After about 8-10 min driving time (prob for oil to become hot as well) i noticed it wasnt smoking anymore. I pulled over on the highway and i opened my hood. The oil puddle was still there but it was mostly gone, looked like it had sort of just evaporated, but you could still see it was leaking. When i say leaking i dont mean that its pouring out or i can see a stream, its just always wet.
Im thinking this: When the car is started and the oil is cold, its more thick and the oil PSI is higher, thats why it leaked so much and even ended up making a small puddle under the car. As the oil is cold/warm and leaks onto the turbo it may be getting into where ether the big metal clamp that holds the turbo assy to the hotside and burning it that way, or if its getting into the turbo some other way. When the car warms and and doesnt smoke as much im thinking since the oil is more thin and a lower PSI it feeds ok and has little leak, this is why the turbo doesnt smoke nearly as much (only if you stop on it) Do you think this is a good guess? Regaurdless it needs to be fixed with hard line, but i want to see your input. Ill check the intake today for oil as well as a compression check, whats the stock value for comp?
***EDIT*** I looked at the PCV hose thats just venting out and not hooked up to the TB, there has been no oil coming out that line (there was before i was turo) Now all the oil is leaking out of the hose on the side of the valve cover (the one that vents to the intake) Thats the one that made a puddle this mornign under the car, NOT the leaking feed line!! Im thinking really high crankcase pressure, How is this under so much pressure that on a cold start that vent leaks a small puddle of oil???? My only guess is that the PCV valve being a one way valve needs vac to open up the PCV valve to let the crank pressure vent, now that its not hooked up to the TB and the valve wont open, all the pressure rises and heads out the intake vent? What do you think??
***SECOND EDIT*** So its lunch time here at KIA, so i got a chance to take off the evo intake and see if there is any oil...None. No oil, and no shaft play. Im leaning towards maybe excessive crank pressure is pushing the oil past the seals inside, burning it. What do you think?
So i found something interesting, let me know if you think this is possible somehow. I noticed today when i started my car and it was cold, there was a small oil puddle under my car...i was like ****!!! opened the hood, no smoke or anything but i noticed that the feed line ontop was leaking oil, it was puddled up ontop of the turbo, It stopped dripping so i let it warm up, i squeezed the feel line hose to make sure it was still getting oil, it was..as the engine temp was cold to moderatly hot, while driving i would smoke pretty decent trails
After about 8-10 min driving time (prob for oil to become hot as well) i noticed it wasnt smoking anymore. I pulled over on the highway and i opened my hood. The oil puddle was still there but it was mostly gone, looked like it had sort of just evaporated, but you could still see it was leaking. When i say leaking i dont mean that its pouring out or i can see a stream, its just always wet. Im thinking this: When the car is started and the oil is cold, its more thick and the oil PSI is higher, thats why it leaked so much and even ended up making a small puddle under the car. As the oil is cold/warm and leaks onto the turbo it may be getting into where ether the big metal clamp that holds the turbo assy to the hotside and burning it that way, or if its getting into the turbo some other way. When the car warms and and doesnt smoke as much im thinking since the oil is more thin and a lower PSI it feeds ok and has little leak, this is why the turbo doesnt smoke nearly as much (only if you stop on it) Do you think this is a good guess? Regaurdless it needs to be fixed with hard line, but i want to see your input. Ill check the intake today for oil as well as a compression check, whats the stock value for comp?
***EDIT*** I looked at the PCV hose thats just venting out and not hooked up to the TB, there has been no oil coming out that line (there was before i was turo) Now all the oil is leaking out of the hose on the side of the valve cover (the one that vents to the intake) Thats the one that made a puddle this mornign under the car, NOT the leaking feed line!! Im thinking really high crankcase pressure, How is this under so much pressure that on a cold start that vent leaks a small puddle of oil???? My only guess is that the PCV valve being a one way valve needs vac to open up the PCV valve to let the crank pressure vent, now that its not hooked up to the TB and the valve wont open, all the pressure rises and heads out the intake vent? What do you think??
***SECOND EDIT*** So its lunch time here at KIA, so i got a chance to take off the evo intake and see if there is any oil...None. No oil, and no shaft play. Im leaning towards maybe excessive crank pressure is pushing the oil past the seals inside, burning it. What do you think?
Last edited by Mitsu.kid.02; Sep 30, 2010 at 09:22 AM.
Sep 30, 2010, 09:29 AM
#5
Hey JRR,
So i found something interesting, let me know if you think this is possible somehow. I noticed today when i started my car and it was cold, there was a small oil puddle under my car...i was like ****!!! opened the hood, no smoke or anything but i noticed that the feed line ontop was leaking oil, it was puddled up ontop of the turbo, It stopped dripping so i let it warm up, i squeezed the feel line hose to make sure it was still getting oil, it was..as the engine temp was cold to moderatly hot, while driving i would smoke pretty decent trails After about 8-10 min driving time (prob for oil to become hot as well) i noticed it wasnt smoking anymore. I pulled over on the highway and i opened my hood. The oil puddle was still there but it was mostly gone, looked like it had sort of just evaporated, but you could still see it was leaking. When i say leaking i dont mean that its pouring out or i can see a stream, its just always wet.
Im thinking this: When the car is started and the oil is cold, its more thick and the oil PSI is higher, thats why it leaked so much and even ended up making a small puddle under the car. As the oil is cold/warm and leaks onto the turbo it may be getting into where ether the big metal clamp that holds the turbo assy to the hotside and burning it that way, or if its getting into the turbo some other way. When the car warms and and doesnt smoke as much im thinking since the oil is more thin and a lower PSI it feeds ok and has little leak, this is why the turbo doesnt smoke nearly as much (only if you stop on it) Do you think this is a good guess? Regaurdless it needs to be fixed with hard line, but i want to see your input. Ill check the intake today for oil as well as a compression check, whats the stock value for comp?
***EDIT*** I looked at the PCV hose thats just venting out and not hooked up to the TB, there has been no oil coming out that line (there was before i was turo) Now all the oil is leaking out of the hose on the side of the valve cover (the one that vents to the intake) Thats the one that made a puddle this mornign under the car, NOT the leaking feed line!! Im thinking really high crankcase pressure, How is this under so much pressure that on a cold start that vent leaks a small puddle of oil???? My only guess is that the PCV valve being a one way valve needs vac to open up the PCV valve to let the crank pressure vent, now that its not hooked up to the TB and the valve wont open, all the pressure rises and heads out the intake vent? What do you think??
So i found something interesting, let me know if you think this is possible somehow. I noticed today when i started my car and it was cold, there was a small oil puddle under my car...i was like ****!!! opened the hood, no smoke or anything but i noticed that the feed line ontop was leaking oil, it was puddled up ontop of the turbo, It stopped dripping so i let it warm up, i squeezed the feel line hose to make sure it was still getting oil, it was..as the engine temp was cold to moderatly hot, while driving i would smoke pretty decent trails
After about 8-10 min driving time (prob for oil to become hot as well) i noticed it wasnt smoking anymore. I pulled over on the highway and i opened my hood. The oil puddle was still there but it was mostly gone, looked like it had sort of just evaporated, but you could still see it was leaking. When i say leaking i dont mean that its pouring out or i can see a stream, its just always wet. Im thinking this: When the car is started and the oil is cold, its more thick and the oil PSI is higher, thats why it leaked so much and even ended up making a small puddle under the car. As the oil is cold/warm and leaks onto the turbo it may be getting into where ether the big metal clamp that holds the turbo assy to the hotside and burning it that way, or if its getting into the turbo some other way. When the car warms and and doesnt smoke as much im thinking since the oil is more thin and a lower PSI it feeds ok and has little leak, this is why the turbo doesnt smoke nearly as much (only if you stop on it) Do you think this is a good guess? Regaurdless it needs to be fixed with hard line, but i want to see your input. Ill check the intake today for oil as well as a compression check, whats the stock value for comp?
***EDIT*** I looked at the PCV hose thats just venting out and not hooked up to the TB, there has been no oil coming out that line (there was before i was turo) Now all the oil is leaking out of the hose on the side of the valve cover (the one that vents to the intake) Thats the one that made a puddle this mornign under the car, NOT the leaking feed line!! Im thinking really high crankcase pressure, How is this under so much pressure that on a cold start that vent leaks a small puddle of oil???? My only guess is that the PCV valve being a one way valve needs vac to open up the PCV valve to let the crank pressure vent, now that its not hooked up to the TB and the valve wont open, all the pressure rises and heads out the intake vent? What do you think??
Im thinking you might have reused your copper seals like I did when I was doing my build which pushed it back a couple days because I couldn't figure out the issue. Your valve cover that little nipple is suppose to always be on the intake and not open valved with a air filter like most people did... yes I was one of those people and it made my car idle funny
If your turbo is still messed up I can get you a turbo for $200.00 with a ported hotside, I was planning on buying a 10.5 hotside but I decided maybe to wait a little bit later before doing whatever to the lancer
Sep 30, 2010, 10:20 AM
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Im thinking you might have reused your copper seals like I did when I was doing my build which pushed it back a couple days because I couldn't figure out the issue. Your valve cover that little nipple is suppose to always be on the intake and not open valved with a air filter like most people did... yes I was one of those people and it made my car idle funny
If your turbo is still messed up I can get you a turbo for $200.00 with a ported hotside, I was planning on buying a 10.5 hotside but I decided maybe to wait a little bit later before doing whatever to the lancer
If your turbo is still messed up I can get you a turbo for $200.00 with a ported hotside, I was planning on buying a 10.5 hotside but I decided maybe to wait a little bit later before doing whatever to the lancer
Sep 30, 2010, 11:24 AM
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What copper seals? I used everything the rebuild kit came with, all the thrust parts, washers, bearings, circlips, new compressor wheel nut, i used everything! Well i know the hose coming off of the valve cover on the side that connects to the intake is suppost to be connected, but, if its pushing out oil like the amount i have pushing out of it...theres no way you would want that in your intake.. I plugged up the evo intake nipple where its suppost to connect to and just left that hose off off the valve cover venting, Idles fine and all, just trying to think of why im getting so much crank pressure, its not normal for a "vent hose" to literally push oil out of in the amount im getting it at. Im thinking the oil pressure is enough to maybe push it past the seals inside the turbo burning it
What oil are you using, some massive thick 20w 50 stuff?
Also, I think an air filter on the valve cover is "okay" and it sort of prevents all that yucky oil getting into the intake and reducing intercooler efficiency, but if you want a hose going to the intake, then you can get a "catch can" to prevent the oil from making it into the intake tubes.
Do you have an oil pressure gauge? any check engine lights?
Oh, and what size is the oil feed, some people say if you feed too much oil, you'll see smoke and they recommend using a restrictor plate to keep extra oil from getting in.
Just for clarity, you took the turbo off, put the stock exhaust back on, and it did not smoke?
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Sep 30, 2010, 11:38 AM
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He's talking about the copper "crush" washers I think on the banjo fitting where the oil feed connects to the turbo I think. -Im not using hard line so i dont have banjo fittings.
What oil are you using, some massive thick 20w 50 stuff?- Im using conventional 10w30 oil, is this the right stuff?
Also, I think an air filter on the valve cover is "okay" and it sort of prevents all that yucky oil getting into the intake and reducing intercooler efficiency, but if you want a hose going to the intake, then you can get a "catch can" to prevent the oil from making it into the intake tubes.- I most likely will get a catch can to prevent oil from getting into the intake, since there is alot of oil spilling out..
Do you have an oil pressure gauge? any check engine lights?- My oil pressure guage shorted out, so i cant even check that wich sucks... I need to invest in a new one so i can see whats goin on. I do get a CEL for a P0171 system too lean bank one code with the turbo on. When it was off the car the code went away. I need to adjust the fuel trims i guess because the LTFT exceeded 12.5
Oh, and what size is the oil feed, some people say if you feed too much oil, you'll see smoke and they recommend using a restrictor plate to keep extra oil from getting in.- Im using a 3/8 rubber fuel hose that goes from the oil sandwich plate up to the turbo and is clamped onto the turbo. Im looking at getting a -4an 90 degree one today or tomorro to prevent the leaks from the feedline to turbo.
Just for clarity, you took the turbo off, put the stock exhaust back on, and it did not smoke?
What oil are you using, some massive thick 20w 50 stuff?- Im using conventional 10w30 oil, is this the right stuff?
Also, I think an air filter on the valve cover is "okay" and it sort of prevents all that yucky oil getting into the intake and reducing intercooler efficiency, but if you want a hose going to the intake, then you can get a "catch can" to prevent the oil from making it into the intake tubes.- I most likely will get a catch can to prevent oil from getting into the intake, since there is alot of oil spilling out..
Do you have an oil pressure gauge? any check engine lights?- My oil pressure guage shorted out, so i cant even check that wich sucks... I need to invest in a new one so i can see whats goin on. I do get a CEL for a P0171 system too lean bank one code with the turbo on. When it was off the car the code went away. I need to adjust the fuel trims i guess because the LTFT exceeded 12.5
Oh, and what size is the oil feed, some people say if you feed too much oil, you'll see smoke and they recommend using a restrictor plate to keep extra oil from getting in.- Im using a 3/8 rubber fuel hose that goes from the oil sandwich plate up to the turbo and is clamped onto the turbo. Im looking at getting a -4an 90 degree one today or tomorro to prevent the leaks from the feedline to turbo.
Just for clarity, you took the turbo off, put the stock exhaust back on, and it did not smoke?
Sep 30, 2010, 12:08 PM
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- Correct. I removed the turbo for about one week to rebuild. No smoke, no funny driving, just loud exhaust haha, so i know its the turbo, some way its burning the oil in there, i have all new seals and thrust peices and no shaft play, and no oil in the intake or turbo coming out. Im so lost :-( ill do a compression test later today after work too.
The smoke though, shouldn't be coming through from a leak on top where it feeds. It shouldn't burn oil from the cylinders having bad compression but not with the turbo off (Still no harm in checking), and it really shouldn't burn much oil from it spitting into the intake (but you have a filter on their anyways, right?)
I'm with you, it seems like the turbo has some sort of problem with oil even after the rebuild. Over oiling could cause it though, as that 3/8 line is kinda beefy. It's worked properly in the past, correct? If yes, and it started smoking, you rebuilt, and it's still smoking...then either the rebuild didn't fix the problem with the turbo, or the problem lies elsewhere. Not sure where though, lol...as an "IT Guy" I start swapping parts out, try a diff video card, diff RAM, etc etc...so a diff turbo would tell you for sure if it's the turbo or something else, but no extra turbo's lying around I'd wager.
Sep 30, 2010, 12:29 PM
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So, from what you say, I'd say it's a good idea to have a nice 4an line from the sandwich to the turbo, since that lines got some pressure too it it's better not to use hose clamps and stuff there.
The smoke though, shouldn't be coming through from a leak on top where it feeds. It shouldn't burn oil from the cylinders having bad compression but not with the turbo off (Still no harm in checking), and it really shouldn't burn much oil from it spitting into the intake (but you have a filter on their anyways, right?)
well the hose from the valve cover that connects to the nipple on the intake isnt hooked up to anything, i just have that hose venting. The intake nipple is plugged up with a screw. That hose though is the one that spits out alot of oil, more than whats "normal" i would think.
I'm with you, it seems like the turbo has some sort of problem with oil even after the rebuild. Over oiling could cause it though, as that 3/8 line is kinda beefy. It's worked properly in the past, correct? If yes, and it started smoking, you rebuilt, and it's still smoking...then either the rebuild didn't fix the problem with the turbo, or the problem lies elsewhere. Not sure where though, lol...as an "IT Guy" I start swapping parts out, try a diff video card, diff RAM, etc etc...so a diff turbo would tell you for sure if it's the turbo or something else, but no extra turbo's lying around I'd wager.
The smoke though, shouldn't be coming through from a leak on top where it feeds. It shouldn't burn oil from the cylinders having bad compression but not with the turbo off (Still no harm in checking), and it really shouldn't burn much oil from it spitting into the intake (but you have a filter on their anyways, right?)
well the hose from the valve cover that connects to the nipple on the intake isnt hooked up to anything, i just have that hose venting. The intake nipple is plugged up with a screw. That hose though is the one that spits out alot of oil, more than whats "normal" i would think.
I'm with you, it seems like the turbo has some sort of problem with oil even after the rebuild. Over oiling could cause it though, as that 3/8 line is kinda beefy. It's worked properly in the past, correct? If yes, and it started smoking, you rebuilt, and it's still smoking...then either the rebuild didn't fix the problem with the turbo, or the problem lies elsewhere. Not sure where though, lol...as an "IT Guy" I start swapping parts out, try a diff video card, diff RAM, etc etc...so a diff turbo would tell you for sure if it's the turbo or something else, but no extra turbo's lying around I'd wager.
Sep 30, 2010, 07:14 PM
#11
Ok.. Heres a DUMB question.. And id hope this isnt the answer..
Please tell me u have a -3an oil line going to the turbo and not a -4an hose. if u have a -4an more then likely the turbo is getting to much volume. and causing the smoke. u can use a -4an if u have a restrictor on the turbo.
Please tell me u have a -3an oil line going to the turbo and not a -4an hose. if u have a -4an more then likely the turbo is getting to much volume. and causing the smoke. u can use a -4an if u have a restrictor on the turbo.
Sep 30, 2010, 09:57 PM
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Ok.. Heres a DUMB question.. And id hope this isnt the answer..
Please tell me u have a -3an oil line going to the turbo and not a -4an hose. if u have a -4an more then likely the turbo is getting to much volume. and causing the smoke. u can use a -4an if u have a restrictor on the turbo.
Please tell me u have a -3an oil line going to the turbo and not a -4an hose. if u have a -4an more then likely the turbo is getting to much volume. and causing the smoke. u can use a -4an if u have a restrictor on the turbo.
Also the smoking is getting crazy my exhaust is covered in oil now from it smoking so much...please just tell me i have too much oil going into the turbo???
Oct 1, 2010, 12:29 AM
#13
Ok.. Heres a DUMB question.. And id hope this isnt the answer..
Please tell me u have a -3an oil line going to the turbo and not a -4an hose. if u have a -4an more then likely the turbo is getting to much volume. and causing the smoke. u can use a -4an if u have a restrictor on the turbo.
Please tell me u have a -3an oil line going to the turbo and not a -4an hose. if u have a -4an more then likely the turbo is getting to much volume. and causing the smoke. u can use a -4an if u have a restrictor on the turbo.
.... Bro im using a -4an and im not having any issues,
but then again im using a -8an oil return or 5/8th of an inch.
Oct 1, 2010, 01:00 AM
#14
Im not using any kind of -an fittings, i need to get some tho, is 3/8 hose too big? This is what im using for the feed...
Also the smoking is getting crazy my exhaust is covered in oil now from it smoking so much...please just tell me i have too much oil going into the turbo???
Also the smoking is getting crazy my exhaust is covered in oil now from it smoking so much...please just tell me i have too much oil going into the turbo???
bro im so confused on whats going on here? 3/8ths of an inch? what exactly are you using for your feed and return line, We need to know exactly what your using and possibly a few pics so we can help you with this.
after all my research this past year I think "and correct me if im wrong" your the only one thats using a 3/8ths of an inch feed line. I can see that being more your return line or a little bit bigger.
I just looked at a ruler and thats to big bro way to big, thats almost cloe to half an inch.
if you need a feed line this is what you should have gotten this at least but around 36-42 inches long
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/28-lo...item5193b9782f
Oct 1, 2010, 05:10 AM
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bro im so confused on whats going on here? 3/8ths of an inch? what exactly are you using for your feed and return line, We need to know exactly what your using and possibly a few pics so we can help you with this.
after all my research this past year I think "and correct me if im wrong" your the only one thats using a 3/8ths of an inch feed line. I can see that being more your return line or a little bit bigger.
I just looked at a ruler and thats to big bro way to big, thats almost cloe to half an inch.
if you need a feed line this is what you should have gotten this at least but around 36-42 inches long
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/28-lo...item5193b9782f
after all my research this past year I think "and correct me if im wrong" your the only one thats using a 3/8ths of an inch feed line. I can see that being more your return line or a little bit bigger.
I just looked at a ruler and thats to big bro way to big, thats almost cloe to half an inch.
if you need a feed line this is what you should have gotten this at least but around 36-42 inches long
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/28-lo...item5193b9782f
Ok bro so ill try to explain a lil better for ya. My oil return line to the pan is a big 5/8th heater hose, i tapped the silver part of the pan. My feed line is 3/8 rubber fuel line that connects from the turbo to the oil filter sandwich plate. It connects onto the top of the turbo by a hose clamp (that leaks) The fitting that its clamped onto is a taper'd fitting, im not sure what size tho (-4an, -3an) is there a way to find out?? It is a big line... i really hope im just "over oiling" the turbo...if so will this kill the turbo? Do i need yet another rebuild??
Can i buy this : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/36-In...item27b4b9a2d5 And just ditch those other parts and use the line?? Or would this one be better? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4an-S...item2c578fa635 Again im not sure what fitting is on the turbo, it is a taper'd fitting, not sure if its -4an or -3an
Here is a pic of the feed line:
Last edited by Mitsu.kid.02; Oct 1, 2010 at 05:22 AM.