koolade9

iTrader: (3)

not to flame ya bud, but alot of that is marketing. the idmax is a kickass sub, but the idqs do sound better... how many idmax's would they be selling if they supported the use of idqs in their winning cars...

as always, everyone has different tastes, the idmax is marketed toward the guy who cares about sound quality, but wants to dedicate 1500w to his sub-bass. and there's alot of those guys out there. that's where the money is.

some of us remember competing in the 0-150w and 151-300w classes, for the entire system.

it's like V8 mentality, more displacement=more hp(more subs+more amplifiers) vs. the import mentality, tuning=more hp(enclosure design, acoustics, efficiency)

basically, in your case, their marketing is working.

Jason Ewing, World champion, didn't mount his subs in the dash

the only cars i see with subs in the dash, are factory cars, and those cars have enough eq'ing, that they could make any speaker configuration sound good.

the whole basis behind up front bass is that you would most like to replicate the home stereo. true left and right definition. but remember, you're 10-15 feet away from your home stereo. the sub in your dash will be 2-3' from you, and anything below 60-70 hz won't have enough time to complete 1/4 of a cycle by the time it hits your ears. instead it will resonate off everything else in the car and you'll have a nice phase shift in your low end. and when you listen to it, it won't be quite as loud as you expected...actually, if it's not more then 6db less then an in trunk setup...i'd be very suprised.... and that's purely based on physics. so to compensate, you'll add more power, thus add more distortion, add more resonation to your dash, and you'll have effectively defeated the purpose

so again, I ask, why would you want a sub in your dash again??

Lance Dogg

by the way... about subs in the dash... alpine's demo truck (BMW X5) had to 10" Type X subs in the dash. all equipped. it was bad ***, pics on the way!

koolade9

iTrader: (3)

oh yeah, there's a ton of factory/show cars out there with them in the dash... without even seeing thier X5, I'm going to assume steve brown did the install, and it's got an F1 setup in it. play with that, and like i said...you can make damn near any setup sound freakin amazing.

it's got a high cool/bling factor. but the limited benefits, aren't worth the huge cost.

Lance Dogg

Alpine's BMW X5 folks!

26" rims, by the way!

Sassmaster

My car will be a show car, a purpose built SQ competition car. hence the sub in the dash.

I'm looking not at putting an 8" in there in a TL enclosure... might have to raise the dash a bit, but it's doable.

koolade9

iTrader: (3)

i'm not gonna agrue with ya... it's your car, not mine.

BillAce

iTrader: (2)

Sunday morning before the show opened, I sat in Mark E.'s 4runner for a bout an hour. Not the best tonality I've ever heard, but a great sounding system. The depth of stage was by far the best I've experienced. I only got out because i had a meeting @ Alpine. I go over to the Alpine booth and see Steve & Mike. I hop in and listen to 3 disks. Bass was a little boomy, stage was unbeleivably wide though it was "in your face". In the case of both cars, one with subs in the rear, the other in the dash. With the processing in both cars, there is enough time delay to get the sub bass to appear anywhere. It's not equipment, location or brand name near as much as tuning. I've had success with front or rear subs, kickpanels or pillars and with many brands of products. It's about tuning to get the most out of the system you have, look at Gary's regal, it has never had the same settings at 2 shows, though it sounds amazing, he's always trying to make it better.

Higgity Hank

You keep mentioning TL... are you talking Transmission Line? BEcause if you are, I don't think you're gonna be able to stuff an optimally built TL to hit even 60hz in the dash. Good luck with one to hit 30 in the trunk. http://www.t-linespeakers.org/ has some of the info on the enclosure you're talking about... You might want to reconsider.

If you find a way, more power to ya... but I can't say as I can see it happening.

koolade9

iTrader: (3)

haha, i didn't even notice he was talkin TL setups... thanks for stepping in.


if you're thinking of building one into your dash... you obviously haven't built one before.

I appreciate your ambition, and your desire to learn and try new things. but don't try to show off knowledge you don't possess. it's like the guy who uses big words and doesn't know what they mean.

Of the hundreds of custom enclosures i've built over the years, I've tried many elaborate designs and theories... but i've never even attempted a TL setup in my home...much less in a car... the space needed, just isn't there...think more along the lines of a bus.

BillAce

iTrader: (2)

I have to say that I really like the IDMax, used them myself in my last car. You do need approx 600 watts to get full excursion since they are efficient. The benefit they have over the IDQ (the best all around woofer ever IMO) and others is linear stroke. The woofer will play lower notes accurately and not rely on the vehicles transfer function to do it. I had a pair on my 9.0 free air in my Legend and don't think I ever didn't get a perfect score for subbass in competition. My subs were custom coils , but that was more to bump my SPL, I was giving away 10-12 points. My car was terrible for SPL and I was free air. How a woofer performs is dependent on how it's used, how it's powered and it's environment. I've won hundreds of SQ competitions with dozens of different subs/configurations/locations.

I even built a TL enclosure a long time ago. It was huge, had old W6's in it and hit 158.7 @ 66hz back in the day w/ 600 watts. I built some perfect polygon enclosures, played with liquid nitrogen to increase amplifier efficiency. I did some weird things when I was younger!

SK Lancer

Hmm...Liquid Nitrogen to increase efficiency...did that do much? Did it just affect efficiency?

BillAce

iTrader: (2)

I ran a 1/4 ohm load on a GM/Delco head unit by cooling the IC. It didn't sound good but was playing as long as we wanted. We then built a 7 section dessicant chamber, and submersed an old Zapco Z300 running 16- 8 ohm subs in mono. We were able to run it very loud with no trouble and kept lowering the fuse value from the battery until we had a 30A fuse. The amp had 90A of fusing on it and was rated stable to 2 ohms mono. The 30 never blew. In the end, it was just too expensive to be practical and sonically the components in the amp weren't meant to be used in the temperature range they were in causing poor sound quality. Fun to play with, Liquid Nitrogen is excellent for dusting and the tank had a blow off valve that would surprise you every now and then.

BillAce

iTrader: (2)

If you know Jason, tell him I said he's a punk if he doesn't come to Pocono!

Sassmaster

On the subject of Transmission line enclosures, I've helped build one for an 8" Resonant engineering RE series sub... the transmission line is 12 feet long, and 28.5 sq inches of surface area. basically, it can be done with 12 feet of ABS plastic pipe. That port was a 1/4 wave tuned to 23 HZ, which is the FS of that particular sub.

the actual box was no bigger than a large box for a 10", and would easily fit into any trunk.

so the guy who's never even tried is telling the person who has, not to say anything until he's tried... hmmm, thanks for coming out.

I said I was thinking of it not that I was going to do it, at the time I was between sponsors, and looking at my options. but since I've gone with a different sponsor now, I'll be using 2 DLS Iridium series 12s in the trunk, and adding a 10" iridium in the dash later this season or at the start of next season.