ROAD/RACE Piggy Software Discussion.
Dec 8, 2005, 05:36 PM
#1
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ROAD/RACE Piggy Software Discussion.
I promised I would discuss the possibilities of selling future Piggybacks with software. So...... here you go. If you have a piggy, 1,2, turbo. Please chime in but no nonsense. Discussion is for serious resolution of this issue and I will not a tolerate anybody who doesn't have a girlfriend or lost their sock monkey!
Here is dilema
For us:
PRO
Allow advanced guys to custom tune their car.
Add value to a product designed for the beginner but allow advanced guys to possibly buy piggy instead of more advanced units like Emanage, AEM ,......
Allow for customer to troubleshoot remotely.
CON
Endless customer questions resulting in excessive babysitting of beginners who should have never got the software or messed with anything.
Servicing guys who bought used boxes and expect us to resolve issues for them, not limited to but including, sending new instructions, software, default maps, and settings. THis absorbes a lot of energy and most questions cannot be answered by an $8.00 an hour guy. Needs to be done by expert.
Costly servicing
Possible bad press from blown up engines etc... by guys who did not use a professional or a wideband or just don't know how to make toast without burning it.
Software Piracy.
Resolve these issue for me and I may change our policy and the supported view of Split Second! Right now selected people have our software with our permission. They have wither done beta testing for us on N/A or turbo. Honestly none of them have come up with better numbers than us, in fact most have come out with lower or equal dynos.
ROAD/RACE
Here is dilema
For us:
PRO
Allow advanced guys to custom tune their car.
Add value to a product designed for the beginner but allow advanced guys to possibly buy piggy instead of more advanced units like Emanage, AEM ,......
Allow for customer to troubleshoot remotely.
CON
Endless customer questions resulting in excessive babysitting of beginners who should have never got the software or messed with anything.
Servicing guys who bought used boxes and expect us to resolve issues for them, not limited to but including, sending new instructions, software, default maps, and settings. THis absorbes a lot of energy and most questions cannot be answered by an $8.00 an hour guy. Needs to be done by expert.
Costly servicing
Possible bad press from blown up engines etc... by guys who did not use a professional or a wideband or just don't know how to make toast without burning it.
Software Piracy.
Resolve these issue for me and I may change our policy and the supported view of Split Second! Right now selected people have our software with our permission. They have wither done beta testing for us on N/A or turbo. Honestly none of them have come up with better numbers than us, in fact most have come out with lower or equal dynos.
ROAD/RACE
Dec 8, 2005, 05:51 PM
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Point taken. I have already considered that but I want it to come from you guys! All the common sense answers will be exposed once you look at it from the perspective of the vendor and pretend you have to keep long term objectives intact rather than just pacify individuals and their desire to have something. Numerous analogies can be made to other products outside of the automotive field. I am sure some will come to mind once I think about it.
ROAD/RCE
ROAD/RCE
Dec 8, 2005, 05:53 PM
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What about another option of buying boxes with the software but not with your map if you are so worried about people stealing your tune.
For custom tuners the end result will be a different tune anyway.
Also with so many other split second boxes out there on other types of cars why is it only you see that you are going to have these problems? It's really no different than any other types of tuning to a car. There are risks associated with modifications if not done properly.
Oh and last but not least, You said in another thread that these boxes were made specifically for Lancers. Maybe that was the version one, but how would people get their hands on them if not through RRM? You have to have some record of what boxes you have sold? That way you would know who had access to the software, tunes, etc.
I'm chiming in since if I had that option of having the box I had custom tuned I probably would have kept it. It was obvious that no amount of describing my problem on the phone and sending it back for retuning was going to solve the problem I was experiencing. There is only so much information you can give over the phone.
WADAD
For custom tuners the end result will be a different tune anyway.
Also with so many other split second boxes out there on other types of cars why is it only you see that you are going to have these problems? It's really no different than any other types of tuning to a car. There are risks associated with modifications if not done properly.
Oh and last but not least, You said in another thread that these boxes were made specifically for Lancers. Maybe that was the version one, but how would people get their hands on them if not through RRM? You have to have some record of what boxes you have sold? That way you would know who had access to the software, tunes, etc.
I'm chiming in since if I had that option of having the box I had custom tuned I probably would have kept it. It was obvious that no amount of describing my problem on the phone and sending it back for retuning was going to solve the problem I was experiencing. There is only so much information you can give over the phone.
WADAD
Dec 8, 2005, 05:57 PM
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one word: DISCLAIMER. If your old enough to drive a car, you should be old enough to understand the possible situation you put yourself in when messing with a cars ecu. I can't wait for you guys to put the software for sale and then listen to people try and rag on you when cars start blowing up.
Dec 8, 2005, 06:00 PM
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I'll leave it at this.
In my opinion I don't see this being any different than the CAI I put on my car that nearly sucked up a bunch of water during hurricane flooding. I had sense enough to park it and walk.
If you modify a car beyond the factory hardware it is your own risk.
WADAD
In my opinion I don't see this being any different than the CAI I put on my car that nearly sucked up a bunch of water during hurricane flooding. I had sense enough to park it and walk.
If you modify a car beyond the factory hardware it is your own risk.
WADAD
Dec 8, 2005, 06:21 PM
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WOW 
Never thought i'd see a post like this... though i wanted it.
I'll tell you guys... i was one that wanted the software badly for my turbo'd RA. I begged... i pleaded... i did everything except some unspeakable acts
Finally RRM gave me the software and the race gas map... i went to the dyno... pulled a little better numbers on pump and race gas than they had posted. I payed 400 bucks for tuning on Race and pump gas and when it was all said and done i'm still using the maps RRM originally designed.
Piont being is that i'm out 400 bucks with no more power to show for it... the tuner said that the car was as far as he'd go and consider it safe to release. He actually said i got my money's worth buying from RRM. Made me happy and angry. I tried to fight paying him that much for nothing... then he told me that all the dyno times and pulls was really about 600 bucks but he felt bad. In the end i had to pay him for his time and my non-belief in RRM.
I do think the software should be available though. I'm in northern CALI
and still can only get 91 **** gas. Maybe for some states that offer higher more can be had. I think i'd had been even more willing to buy the turbo kit if i knew i could self tune but i'm also glad i was able to prove that they did a good job on the tune.
Whether they give it up or not it's either all or none. They can't give it to a few and not expect it to get out... i've made copies myself as i have others helping me tune and learn. Sorry RRM... didn't mean to pirate stuff. I trully have kept it secret till now. Only trusted friends without lancers have it.
I say give it up and if someone calls with tuning issues direct them to an email. Let that email get filled up and answer it as you can. If you can't tough luck as there's many dyno tuners around that could tune for them. However if it's a legit issue help them on the phone but as soon as tuning theory comes into discussion send em to the email.
I do hope you give the starting maps though... helps us out a lot. Also don't up the price... just sell the box with the map and the software for the same price but do as i've said above for support.
That's my novel/suggestion/input...
Never thought i'd see a post like this... though i wanted it.
I'll tell you guys... i was one that wanted the software badly for my turbo'd RA. I begged... i pleaded... i did everything except some unspeakable acts
Finally RRM gave me the software and the race gas map... i went to the dyno... pulled a little better numbers on pump and race gas than they had posted. I payed 400 bucks for tuning on Race and pump gas and when it was all said and done i'm still using the maps RRM originally designed.
Piont being is that i'm out 400 bucks with no more power to show for it... the tuner said that the car was as far as he'd go and consider it safe to release. He actually said i got my money's worth buying from RRM. Made me happy and angry. I tried to fight paying him that much for nothing... then he told me that all the dyno times and pulls was really about 600 bucks but he felt bad. In the end i had to pay him for his time and my non-belief in RRM.
I do think the software should be available though. I'm in northern CALI
and still can only get 91 **** gas. Maybe for some states that offer higher more can be had. I think i'd had been even more willing to buy the turbo kit if i knew i could self tune but i'm also glad i was able to prove that they did a good job on the tune.Whether they give it up or not it's either all or none. They can't give it to a few and not expect it to get out... i've made copies myself as i have others helping me tune and learn. Sorry RRM... didn't mean to pirate stuff. I trully have kept it secret till now. Only trusted friends without lancers have it.
I say give it up and if someone calls with tuning issues direct them to an email. Let that email get filled up and answer it as you can. If you can't tough luck as there's many dyno tuners around that could tune for them. However if it's a legit issue help them on the phone but as soon as tuning theory comes into discussion send em to the email.
I do hope you give the starting maps though... helps us out a lot. Also don't up the price... just sell the box with the map and the software for the same price but do as i've said above for support.
That's my novel/suggestion/input...
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Dec 8, 2005, 06:23 PM
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Wadalig, you have more sense than most. Believe me , I am not concerned with someone stealing our tune. If you bought a box from us you deserve the tune and all the setup stuff that goes with it. Start selling the boxes with software and all the other guys who have them already have the softwareless version? Possible, not sure how I would resolve it. I fear Hotshot is mostly right. Title of the threads will be... "MY RRM PIGGYBACK BLEW MY ENGINE,anyone else?" Not... " I am a moron who burns toast every F@#kING MORNING AND I HAD NO BUSINESS TRYING TO TUNE MY ENGINE... anyone else?"
ROAD/RACE
ROAD/RACE
Dec 8, 2005, 06:28 PM
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Rock... i know it'll be frustrating if that happens but thats a risk i think is worth taking. You can easily find out why they blew it up. If it's their fault then have a mod delete the entire thread since it's a false statement.
I'm sure the mods would back that situation... it'll be interesting to hear what the mods say about that but i can't see a reason they wouldn't make them retitle or just delete the thread if they did something like that.
I'm sure the mods would back that situation... it'll be interesting to hear what the mods say about that but i can't see a reason they wouldn't make them retitle or just delete the thread if they did something like that.
Dec 8, 2005, 06:42 PM
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sorry about the friends but they were willing to do it for free and use thier pda dyno stuff to see improvements made.
They were unsuccessful. Infact one of my friends junked your map and started fresh. His best was 20whp less according to the pda. Car felt slow and under light loads would ping. He changed it back to your map.
I figure that the dyno tuning session showed a little better power since my intake manifold and head are ported. I had about 5whp and 8wtq higher than your's on pump gas. On RACE gas i had about 9whp higher and 12wtq. Comparing your maps to mine though i had a little better midrange... again i think this is due to my head and manifold being ported though.
On a lighter note... they dyno guy said the car was friggin uncontrollable on race gas putting over 250whp down on a fwd drive car. I can't wait to hit the track again with that setup. Been raining up here though and is damn cold!
Will you still sell me that LSD even though i gave some of the software out? PLEAAAAASSSSEEE. I'll even come down and pay you to install it.
They were unsuccessful. Infact one of my friends junked your map and started fresh. His best was 20whp less according to the pda. Car felt slow and under light loads would ping. He changed it back to your map.
I figure that the dyno tuning session showed a little better power since my intake manifold and head are ported. I had about 5whp and 8wtq higher than your's on pump gas. On RACE gas i had about 9whp higher and 12wtq. Comparing your maps to mine though i had a little better midrange... again i think this is due to my head and manifold being ported though.
On a lighter note... they dyno guy said the car was friggin uncontrollable on race gas putting over 250whp down on a fwd drive car. I can't wait to hit the track again with that setup. Been raining up here though and is damn cold!
Will you still sell me that LSD even though i gave some of the software out? PLEAAAAASSSSEEE. I'll even come down and pay you to install it.
Dec 8, 2005, 06:43 PM
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I really look at it like this:
take your lancer, if you mod it and your mod leads to trouble, it's your problem, not mitsubishis.
if you remap your piggyback, it's your fault, not RRM.
i think if you have the software, remap, ****up, and try to send it back, they should be able to tell you tweaked it and should have no responsibility.
EDIT: i'm one of the idiots who burns toast, personaly i don't care if you guys release the software or not, i wouldn't mess with it.
take your lancer, if you mod it and your mod leads to trouble, it's your problem, not mitsubishis.
if you remap your piggyback, it's your fault, not RRM.
i think if you have the software, remap, ****up, and try to send it back, they should be able to tell you tweaked it and should have no responsibility.
EDIT: i'm one of the idiots who burns toast, personaly i don't care if you guys release the software or not, i wouldn't mess with it.
Dec 8, 2005, 06:46 PM
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On the plus side there are those who if they add things like cams, highcomp pistons, maybe Larger Tb's than RRM offers that would still be able to hold on to their piggy's with a custom tuner?
I'm trying to look at the positives. The current PB is limited by the mods you produce at RRM correct?
WADAD
Oh and I deal with the NA side of things. I completely respect what RRM has accomplished with Turbo kits. Boost is not for me and as such I have no knowledge of those things.
On the plus side there are those who if they add things like cams, highcomp pistons, maybe Larger Tb's than RRM offers that would still be able to hold on to their piggy's with a custom tuner?
I'm trying to look at the positives. The current PB is limited by the mods you produce at RRM correct?
WADAD
Oh and I deal with the NA side of things. I completely respect what RRM has accomplished with Turbo kits. Boost is not for me and as such I have no knowledge of those things.
Last edited by WADADLIG_OZ; Dec 8, 2005 at 06:50 PM.
Dec 8, 2005, 06:49 PM
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you can't tell someone changed it if you change it back to the original map. This i know for a fact. Thus RRM would have to say it's a done deal once they release the software.
I don't like the idea of RRM telling me to "get lost" if i blow up my motor but i understand it if it happens. Some people won't understand it and will try to fight them legally and publically. I think this is what RRM wants to avoid.
Soon i can see you needing a notorized statement to release liability after purchase...
I don't like the idea of RRM telling me to "get lost" if i blow up my motor but i understand it if it happens. Some people won't understand it and will try to fight them legally and publically. I think this is what RRM wants to avoid.
Soon i can see you needing a notorized statement to release liability after purchase...