potential engine swap?
Nov 30, 2002, 07:20 AM
#46
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Those conrods would have to be especially strong, eh?
Well, according to Dave from RPW, the pistons from the 4G94 are the same as the 4G93. If this is the case, could a stroker kit for the 1.8L mirage work for the Lancer, and if so, is there a percentage number on hand for power?
Well, according to Dave from RPW, the pistons from the 4G94 are the same as the 4G93. If this is the case, could a stroker kit for the 1.8L mirage work for the Lancer, and if so, is there a percentage number on hand for power?
Nov 30, 2002, 09:26 AM
#47
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Yes, conrods will have to be strong since it is reaching the threshold. Besides, I need to read specs on the prelude 2.2L. H&A seems to defy the laws of physics on that motor.
I'm not going to doubt RPW's word since they have done a lot of firsthand R&D work.
I reason that the 4g94 pistons cannot be the same, unless piston rings are wide enough to cover .5 mm increase on the cyl wall. As for piston head design, I'm sure it's similar.
A stroker kit usually consists new conrods, pistons, crankshaft, cam, and other small stuff (if you want to see stroker kits for other makes and models - go to JUN or TODARACING). At least, you can get an idea of its complexity.
90% of performance people don't go that route, except for the Domestic boys.
As for the stroker kit from a 4g93 to 4g94, I believe it's possible if replacing the 4g94 crankshaft. Their kit seems to have the 4g94 factory spec in mind way before Mitsu's engineering team.
Power? Let's say you gain an ultraconservative 160 flywheel HP, I'm willing to bet a stroker lancer can make an ITR (awfully hard to combat its tranny, weight, and aggressive cams) run for the money (didn't say win). Nevertheless, it'll be a TQ'ey monster with strong pull throughout the rpm from its new cam profile. Of course, you're not going to gain insane HP from TC or SC, but you really don't have to worry about tunning issues and all those added electrical stuff. Durability of a stroker will last a lot longer than forced induction . . . there is no such thing as abusing a stroker. Abusing or be greedy on forced induction, your motor and parts will pay the ultimate price.
I'm not going to doubt RPW's word since they have done a lot of firsthand R&D work.
I reason that the 4g94 pistons cannot be the same, unless piston rings are wide enough to cover .5 mm increase on the cyl wall. As for piston head design, I'm sure it's similar.
A stroker kit usually consists new conrods, pistons, crankshaft, cam, and other small stuff (if you want to see stroker kits for other makes and models - go to JUN or TODARACING). At least, you can get an idea of its complexity.
90% of performance people don't go that route, except for the Domestic boys.
As for the stroker kit from a 4g93 to 4g94, I believe it's possible if replacing the 4g94 crankshaft. Their kit seems to have the 4g94 factory spec in mind way before Mitsu's engineering team.
Power? Let's say you gain an ultraconservative 160 flywheel HP, I'm willing to bet a stroker lancer can make an ITR (awfully hard to combat its tranny, weight, and aggressive cams) run for the money (didn't say win). Nevertheless, it'll be a TQ'ey monster with strong pull throughout the rpm from its new cam profile. Of course, you're not going to gain insane HP from TC or SC, but you really don't have to worry about tunning issues and all those added electrical stuff. Durability of a stroker will last a lot longer than forced induction . . . there is no such thing as abusing a stroker. Abusing or be greedy on forced induction, your motor and parts will pay the ultimate price.
Dec 16, 2002, 12:15 PM
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Save your money and get a turbo kit for the car...engine swaps can get very spendy and often people have several problem arise from them...just my 2 cents. Then again you could just buy a faster car too!!!
Dec 16, 2002, 03:38 PM
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Don't take it personally... I was just a little disappointed to see a summary of the thread, when I was expecting more information about the current topic, which is the stroker kit.
Dec 16, 2002, 03:40 PM
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Oh dont worry man..we all love to throw our comments in, and by the way no offense takin.....I know you guys were talking about stroker kits but the title was "Potential engine swap?" and thats what I myself was commenting on.
Dec 17, 2002, 01:59 AM
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Someone mentioned something about a DOHC swap. I've been wanting to do this ever since I got my Lancer. Anyone know if it's possible to swap one? Or would one have to be engineered. What are we talking about if it comes to power gains and expenses?
--- Kei
--- Kei
Dec 17, 2002, 07:06 AM
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Just about 160 HP or so, not an additional gain of 160 HP. This is not a big block V8.
"So, let me get this straight... a stroker kit could basically propell this car to the level of a Type R? Naturally aspirated?"
I mean to compete, not get your doors blown off by 10 car length at the track (losing 2 feet behind the r. bumper is still not bad).
This is guess work with some logic on my part basing off what I've seen at the track - Test and Tune or Big Drag Events for prize money on stock or mod GSR and ITR (takes a special driver to ring the full potential of an ITR). If you based everything off bluff or reputation, you'll lose before racing at the track.
Why do you think pro drag racers play mind games before or at the light?
Stroker + bolt-on 4g94 vs a stock ITR
Weight: it will always be on the ITR. It's practically a stripped version, just like the Neon ACR. Of course, it will be off set a bit, if the ITR driver weights around 250 lbs and you weight around 150 lbs or so lbs.
Tranny: Again, it will take a great driver to fling through 2 gears of an ITR to compensate the lack of TQ. An above average driver won't cut it. He'll either bog the line a bit and rely heavily on VTEC kicking hard around mid 3rd gear. Afterwards, with each shift, it's always be in the VTEC powerband.
Is there any hope for the stroker. Yes. An above average driver can rely on TQ to power its way off the line within 2 gears. Basically, it forces the ITR driver to be flawless and rely on his VTEC.
Ex: An average girl in a C5 vette (seen one at test and tune hitting 13.5 to .8 all day - went against all sorts of mildly mod, modern F-body cars with V8's) will torch an ITR. See the psychology of TQ. Force an ITR driver's hand to become a better driver and don't fall into a scared mentality that all ITR drivers are flawless as mag drivers who have TONS of experience with all sorts of cars.
Motor
It should balance out. From the factory, Honda is pretty much finely tuned its A/F with aggressive timing.
A stroker will pretty much rely on its TQ and fatter powerband to pull or hold off a surging ITR.
Combat VTEC?
With mild cams, it won't do enough, and moderate cam profile will do decent. When you hit wild/very aggressive cam lobes, the stroker will negate the advantage of VTEC.
Just ask those domestic guys running around 600 HP. Are they running stock cam? Nope. They run very aggressive cam lobes to pull crazy amount of power in the upper rpm range.
Finally, that's why some pro drag racers like Lisa Kubo has overbore her 2.2 to a whopping 2.6L (if I remember correctly) . . . there is no replacement for displacement. Well, this is an extreme version since domestic guy don't need to sleeve the cyl walls.
"So, let me get this straight... a stroker kit could basically propell this car to the level of a Type R? Naturally aspirated?"
I mean to compete, not get your doors blown off by 10 car length at the track (losing 2 feet behind the r. bumper is still not bad).
This is guess work with some logic on my part basing off what I've seen at the track - Test and Tune or Big Drag Events for prize money on stock or mod GSR and ITR (takes a special driver to ring the full potential of an ITR). If you based everything off bluff or reputation, you'll lose before racing at the track.
Why do you think pro drag racers play mind games before or at the light?
Stroker + bolt-on 4g94 vs a stock ITR
Weight: it will always be on the ITR. It's practically a stripped version, just like the Neon ACR. Of course, it will be off set a bit, if the ITR driver weights around 250 lbs and you weight around 150 lbs or so lbs.
Tranny: Again, it will take a great driver to fling through 2 gears of an ITR to compensate the lack of TQ. An above average driver won't cut it. He'll either bog the line a bit and rely heavily on VTEC kicking hard around mid 3rd gear. Afterwards, with each shift, it's always be in the VTEC powerband.
Is there any hope for the stroker. Yes. An above average driver can rely on TQ to power its way off the line within 2 gears. Basically, it forces the ITR driver to be flawless and rely on his VTEC.
Ex: An average girl in a C5 vette (seen one at test and tune hitting 13.5 to .8 all day - went against all sorts of mildly mod, modern F-body cars with V8's) will torch an ITR. See the psychology of TQ. Force an ITR driver's hand to become a better driver and don't fall into a scared mentality that all ITR drivers are flawless as mag drivers who have TONS of experience with all sorts of cars.
Motor
It should balance out. From the factory, Honda is pretty much finely tuned its A/F with aggressive timing.
A stroker will pretty much rely on its TQ and fatter powerband to pull or hold off a surging ITR.
Combat VTEC?
With mild cams, it won't do enough, and moderate cam profile will do decent. When you hit wild/very aggressive cam lobes, the stroker will negate the advantage of VTEC.
Just ask those domestic guys running around 600 HP. Are they running stock cam? Nope. They run very aggressive cam lobes to pull crazy amount of power in the upper rpm range.
Finally, that's why some pro drag racers like Lisa Kubo has overbore her 2.2 to a whopping 2.6L (if I remember correctly) . . . there is no replacement for displacement. Well, this is an extreme version since domestic guy don't need to sleeve the cyl walls.
Last edited by bahamut; Dec 17, 2002 at 12:13 PM.
Dec 17, 2002, 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by visualkei72
Someone mentioned something about a DOHC swap. I've been wanting to do this ever since I got my Lancer. Anyone know if it's possible to swap one? Or would one have to be engineered. What are we talking about if it comes to power gains and expenses?
--- Kei
Someone mentioned something about a DOHC swap. I've been wanting to do this ever since I got my Lancer. Anyone know if it's possible to swap one? Or would one have to be engineered. What are we talking about if it comes to power gains and expenses?
--- Kei
Dec 17, 2002, 03:33 PM
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https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ghlight=reason <---Now getting the parts from overseas for a DOHC swap is the VERY difficult part.