blaze_125

iTrader: (8)

Don't want to clog Eboy's threads so let me start my own. Trying to stick with n00b terms, can you guys let us know what are the main differences and benefits of most of the management units available out there.

AFC Type II:


Super AFC:


Super AFC II:


E-manage:


Aem Ems:


HKS PFC

Z_Lancer_Man

iTrader: (115)

You also have the AEM EMS - standalone

gregivq

iTrader: (5)

Interesting, the two first ones I have never seen before. Emanage and Super AFCII are a bit the same but Emanage has a lot of more options you can tweak. With Emanage you can have someone tune it for you or get a support tool software and DIY on a laptop.
What is funny is that you can buy Emanage for the same price as Super AFCII.

I know Greddy makes one more fuel management unit. It look like Super AFC. Let me look if I can find it somewhere....

gregivq

iTrader: (5)

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/hopup1/hkspfcffumas.html
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/hopup1/hksgrcocogcc.html


Here are two more, I'm not sure if they would work with Lancers.
And sorry I can't post pictures but I'm at work ....

blaze_125

iTrader: (8)

Can someone tell me if the first one posted, AFC type II, is of any use and would potentially create some gains if tuned on the right %. From my understanding that unit modifies the signal that tells the ecu how much air is coming in. So you can either lean, or enrich the AF ratio. Only disadvantage I can see is that you affect the whole powerband instead of tuning for specific Rpm ranges.

Z_Lancer_Man

iTrader: (115)

I'd ask, HobieKobek, engineerboy or boeturbolancer - they all have management units and could help you out a lot more than us. One of them should chime in here pretty soon.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

Well, the Haltech standalone isn't mentioned either, but I think that's a hack-and-slash harness deal for us. I'm pretty sure we don't have one that's application specific...not that that means it would be any less effective as a means of engine management.

As a person with some experience with the AEM EMS I can tell you it's not for the faint of heart or light of wallet. Before investing in something like this it's wise to have a AEM EMS trained and certified tuning shop in mind for help, tuning and dyno time. It's also wise to have money set aside to pay for the tuning (which can get expensive). The interface is pretty simple (Windows compatible, tuned through any laptop with a serial port. The EMS doesn't like adaptors very much either, so don't try a USB>Serial adaptor because it will cause issues).

The difficult thing is all the research and trial and error that you have to go through to tune it yourself. By far the hardest part is tuning start and idle to try and match the stock ECU's ability. On the other hand, you can tune EVERYTHING. And I mean EVERYTHING. You can change/tune your fan controls, boost control (with required equipment), idle, fuel maps, fuel correction under boost, timing maps, rev limiter, shift light, etc. Anything that passes through the ECU will likely need to be tuned or adjusted. This allows for both tremendous flexibility as well as increased complication. I've spent countless dozens of hours researching, and I've only begun to understand a lot of the functions an ECU cycles through under normal driving.

The EMS (or Haltech too I'd imagine) allows the user to completely remove the MAF, thus removing one bottleneck in the intake system, and tune entirely on MAP (with sensor). The addition of a wideband O2 or UEGO sensor also allows for accurate O2 readings at all times, auto-mapping, and both open and closed loop operation. Acceleration fuel and deceleration fuel cut can be trimmed and tuned as well. The functions encompassed by standalones are nothing short of amazing, however the cost and time involved in tuning is majorly prohibitive.

I wouldn't recommend a standlone EMS unless a person is running a comprehensive turbo or supercharger setup (i.e. well beyond a basic kit) or, on the naturally aspirated side, individual throttle bodies. I think the cautions are about the same for the Haltech, though I have no idea of its interface. The initial cost of standalone and a wideband O2 sensor (I wouldn't even consider going standalone without a WBO2) may seem prohibitive, but it opens the car to possibilities that cars running with piggybacks and reflashes will simply not have, and it allows a level of user input that no other type of engine management can offer.

Supa tek

iTrader: (5)

The most popular are the SAFCII and the emanage. The SAFCII only controls a/f ratios. The emanage you can add different accessories ex. timing control, injector pulse width, etc... and its more specfic with a/f adjustments and also requires basic knowledge of fuel maps. A wide band O2 is also recommended with the emange and a data logger. The emange is a better option but also requires more $.

KillahB

iTrader: (7)

To add to Hobie's post, I dont particularly like the user-friendly-ability of Haltech. This was the odler model, but it was frying our coils like crazy. Nonetheless, basically what Hobie says, applies to most full engine management systems. But those are words to the wise from Hobie.

As for the other untis mentioned in the first post, the AFC Type II, the Super AFC, the SAFC I (the first blue screen version) and the SAFC II (the newest one) all serve the same purpose. They modify the signal to the ECU, thus allowing you to modify the air / fuel mix. Each unit is just progressively better and more advanced than the previous. But that is all that they do: air / fuel alteration. Emanage is much better in that it allows you to control more variables, like ignition timing, as well as the air / fuel ratio. I have never personally worked with it, but it is the "final" step before full management. As good as it is though, it still piggybacks the stock ECU so you are still limited by that. I have a"poor man's" Emanage in that I have the SAFC for my air / fuel modification and an SITC for my ignition timing.

And blaze, you are correct. the first one adjusts throughout the RPM band and not just at a specific point.

blaze_125

iTrader: (8)

Are there any possible gain with such unit? Would I be able to squeaze out a few ponies with that? (talking about the AFC type II) With an unit like that one, I assume I would want to fool the Ecu in thinking there is MORE air than there actually is? or should it be the opposite? or only a Wb02 would tell me?

Gunshin

iTrader: (2)

The AFC type II is simply an older version of Apex's piggyback collection. It could only adjust one parameter 'cos that used to be considered cool. The next model, the Super AFC, allowed 5 correction points. Then the S-AFC offered 8 correction points plus a pretty display, and the S-AFC II upped it to 12 correction points.

Gains are dependent on modifications done to the fuel/air/exhaust flows. It is merely a tool by which to optimize other components' results. It does not offer any inherent advantage beyond that.

KillahB

iTrader: (7)

To add to what gunshin said, I dont even think you can find an AFC type I or II anymore. You might find the Super AFC, in rare quantities.... most on the market now are some variation of the blue screen versions.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

Is their interface with the ECU any different? Ex. Would the older version of S-AFC be any more likely to avoid some of the problems people have with the S-AFC II? I'd imagine no, but I figure it's worth asking.

KillahB

iTrader: (7)

The interface with the ECU is similar.... well at least with the two versions of the blue screen one. I have only seen the Super AFC (knob one) in action a few times, but I did not examine the wiring schematics. I would guess that it would be the same, but I am not sure.

What problems were you Lancer guys having with the SAFC? I assume that there is a post lying around here somewhere .... I'll see what I can dig up.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

I believe the problems are similar to the E-manage ones. I haven't had the problems myself, but I remember having read about them some time ago.