Evo VII weight reduction?
Apr 7, 2002, 12:11 PM
#31
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to Fireball:
I really don't see how anyone can see the possibility of the Evo VII coming to the US without ACD OR AYC. I mean, come on, that's one of the major technology advances with that car and to ship it w/o it is insane.
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You are so correct about so many rumors going around about the upcoming U.S version of the Evo7... That's the key words, U.S. version. We aren't allowed to get all of the good stuff as Europe and Asia will, since they don't have the U.S. EPA watching their every move. That's what stinks
Mitsubishi has a lot of technology that they will probably never bring to the U.S., but this car will have the most of all. Also, don't ever expect the U.S. version to have all of the same features on the Europian version.
For those of you on the other side of the world, my hat's off to ya ! You will get the best of them all. A very good street legal version of the real race car. Which will be very cool !
I really don't see how anyone can see the possibility of the Evo VII coming to the US without ACD OR AYC. I mean, come on, that's one of the major technology advances with that car and to ship it w/o it is insane.
=================
You are so correct about so many rumors going around about the upcoming U.S version of the Evo7... That's the key words, U.S. version. We aren't allowed to get all of the good stuff as Europe and Asia will, since they don't have the U.S. EPA watching their every move. That's what stinks
Mitsubishi has a lot of technology that they will probably never bring to the U.S., but this car will have the most of all. Also, don't ever expect the U.S. version to have all of the same features on the Europian version.
For those of you on the other side of the world, my hat's off to ya ! You will get the best of them all. A very good street legal version of the real race car. Which will be very cool !
Apr 7, 2002, 12:26 PM
#32
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I would really hate to see a deformed Evo promoted on US shores... the possibilities... whatever is going to happen to the intercooler since rumors go it doesnt work with the 5MPH bumpers laws, non of the traction controls, ripped of recaros, momos, brembos... man... i mean it will be real disappointing to see a striped down car which bares the name "Evolution" for me both from the stand point of a potential buyer and a car enthusiast... i dunno, sorry bout going on so far off the original topic, i'm just tryin to vent on this possible upset that the rumors are suggesting.
Apr 8, 2002, 05:28 AM
#33
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So far I will think about getting a carbon fiber hood/trunk/spoiler, Lexan rear window, light flywheel. I don't think that I will be worrying about the A/C for the while being that I want comfort in my car rather than just pure performance. I would though like for somebody to please tell me if the auto A/C is heavier than the manual A/C? To Claudius, about those light wheels you were talking about. Were you refering to rims and the tires or just the rims? I know that I plan on getting the Volk Rays TE 37 magnesium rims if they are reliable and don't get dented or deteriorate from hard use. Do these rims do either of these negative features? Claudius, this is directed to you once again. Please use a the perspective of an Evo VII rather than the VI. Regardless of whether I get AYC or not, that I will learn techniques to get the most out of the Evo. So would a driver with AYC and able to use all of the cars characteristics to the fullest be better and faster than the non-AYC Evo, also using the Evo to the fullest?
Apr 8, 2002, 08:20 PM
#34
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Originally posted by Dark Evo
To Claudius, about those light wheels you were talking about. Were you refering to rims and the tires or just the rims? I know that I plan on getting the Volk Rays TE 37 magnesium rims if they are reliable and don't get dented or deteriorate from hard use. Do these rims do either of these negative features?
To Claudius, about those light wheels you were talking about. Were you refering to rims and the tires or just the rims? I know that I plan on getting the Volk Rays TE 37 magnesium rims if they are reliable and don't get dented or deteriorate from hard use. Do these rims do either of these negative features?
Originally posted by Dark Evo
Claudius, this is directed to you once again. Please use a the perspective of an Evo VII rather than the VI. Regardless of whether I get AYC or not, that I will learn techniques to get the most out of the Evo. So would a driver with AYC and able to use all of the cars characteristics to the fullest be better and faster than the non-AYC Evo, also using the Evo to the fullest?
Claudius, this is directed to you once again. Please use a the perspective of an Evo VII rather than the VI. Regardless of whether I get AYC or not, that I will learn techniques to get the most out of the Evo. So would a driver with AYC and able to use all of the cars characteristics to the fullest be better and faster than the non-AYC Evo, also using the Evo to the fullest?
These are my thoughts, not an ultimate answer.
Apr 8, 2002, 09:16 PM
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I think we have to be careful in what we are comparing. If I was driving a rally car, I would not want the AYC but instead have the best LSD money could buy. This would be far more predictable than the AYC, particularly on different surfaces.
If we are comparing standard road cars being driven on either the road or track, then I a certain that 7 fitted AYC would be quicker through a particular corner than a factory standard car without one. I personally think that on the 7 the combination of ACD and AYC is so good that the extra benefit of fitting an LSD over the AYC isn't worth the money. If I had a 6, its one of the first things I would change !!!
Dark Evo
I would recommend you forget about Lexan windows. The stuff marks so easily that it is totally inpractical for anything other than an race car. Even Blade, who ahs built a track special, doesn't think it is worth while. You will be for ever replacing the windows.
If we are comparing standard road cars being driven on either the road or track, then I a certain that 7 fitted AYC would be quicker through a particular corner than a factory standard car without one. I personally think that on the 7 the combination of ACD and AYC is so good that the extra benefit of fitting an LSD over the AYC isn't worth the money. If I had a 6, its one of the first things I would change !!!
Dark Evo
I would recommend you forget about Lexan windows. The stuff marks so easily that it is totally inpractical for anything other than an race car. Even Blade, who ahs built a track special, doesn't think it is worth while. You will be for ever replacing the windows.
Apr 8, 2002, 10:22 PM
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Lexan windows aren't that bad, you have to change them every now and then. Best is to keep the front as glass and replace the others as it's not that important if they are scratched. Definetely worth it if you go real hardcore.
Simon, I think you have to understand here that we don't think the AYC intrusion will be very different from a 6 to a 7 and we're talking about ultimate control which also extends to the 7, anything intruding is not as good as no intrusion, period.
Simon, I think you have to understand here that we don't think the AYC intrusion will be very different from a 6 to a 7 and we're talking about ultimate control which also extends to the 7, anything intruding is not as good as no intrusion, period.
Apr 9, 2002, 12:03 AM
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Michael
I don't think you understand
On the 7 the AYC isn't intrusive under normal conditions on wet or dry tarmac. I agree that in a 6, you can actually feel it working with the car going from the edge of drift into understeer! You do not get this feeling in a 7. I am talking having driven a 7 now for 6 months so would have noticed intrusiveness of the AYC. In a 6 I noticed it the first time I cornered hard.
However, a good LSD would be better and weigh less but that is not a factory option, which is what we are discussing
I don't think you understand
On the 7 the AYC isn't intrusive under normal conditions on wet or dry tarmac. I agree that in a 6, you can actually feel it working with the car going from the edge of drift into understeer! You do not get this feeling in a 7. I am talking having driven a 7 now for 6 months so would have noticed intrusiveness of the AYC. In a 6 I noticed it the first time I cornered hard.However, a good LSD would be better and weigh less but that is not a factory option, which is what we are discussing
Apr 9, 2002, 10:05 AM
#38
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How often would you have to change Lexan windows? Is there a website or anything that bas the best or great LSDs? Is the VII's AYC really so much better than the VI's?
Apr 9, 2002, 01:15 PM
#39
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Dark Evo
If you think about how long the plastic windows in convertables lasts before it begins to mark and not be so transpartent, I would think that would be about the same with Lexan. In addition, it looks really nasty on a road car.
Most people agree that the LSD's are Cusco so look on their website www.cusco.co.jp
And yes, the 7 feels completely different from the 6 with regard to the AYC. This is because of the ACD. I have driven a 7 for 6 months and don't find the AYC at all noticable. The first time I drove a 6 I noticed it as soon as I took a corner fast.
I suspect that because the ACD moves the power between rear and front that when the AYC kicks in, there isn't as much power running through the back wheels and as the power comes back to the rear, it happens progressively and loads up the AYC better.
It is possible to get a different ECU to control the ACD which makes the handling even better. Although there are 2 units, the one to get is the K1 and it costs about $575-600.
What I don't understand is why you are so into this lightweight thing. Are you building a race car? For a road car you will not notice the difference. Think about it, how much do you feel the difference between having 1 small passenger in the car with you. I don't believe you will feel it at all. It is worth it for a race car because each lap is measured in 100ths of a second.
In the UK we have a top saloon car racing series where weight is used to try to equal performance. Max weight handicap is 40 kgs and it is believed that makes about half a second per lap. where the lap is about 100 seconds. In other words, half of 1 percent. If you can feel that on the road, you should have a job in motorsort
Spend your money in the following order - suspension, brakes, engine, and very last, weight reduction. Also, get your car and drive it. It will tell you what needs doing and for each person, the priorities are different. Only change things when you feel it will make a difference, not when others tell you. For instance, one of the best drivers I know of with a 7, an ex international racer, thinks the 7 has enough power and concentrates on brakes and suspension. YOU CHOOSE, not others.
And most of all, enjoy the car.
If you think about how long the plastic windows in convertables lasts before it begins to mark and not be so transpartent, I would think that would be about the same with Lexan. In addition, it looks really nasty on a road car.
Most people agree that the LSD's are Cusco so look on their website www.cusco.co.jp
And yes, the 7 feels completely different from the 6 with regard to the AYC. This is because of the ACD. I have driven a 7 for 6 months and don't find the AYC at all noticable. The first time I drove a 6 I noticed it as soon as I took a corner fast.
I suspect that because the ACD moves the power between rear and front that when the AYC kicks in, there isn't as much power running through the back wheels and as the power comes back to the rear, it happens progressively and loads up the AYC better.
It is possible to get a different ECU to control the ACD which makes the handling even better. Although there are 2 units, the one to get is the K1 and it costs about $575-600.
What I don't understand is why you are so into this lightweight thing. Are you building a race car? For a road car you will not notice the difference. Think about it, how much do you feel the difference between having 1 small passenger in the car with you. I don't believe you will feel it at all. It is worth it for a race car because each lap is measured in 100ths of a second.
In the UK we have a top saloon car racing series where weight is used to try to equal performance. Max weight handicap is 40 kgs and it is believed that makes about half a second per lap. where the lap is about 100 seconds. In other words, half of 1 percent. If you can feel that on the road, you should have a job in motorsort
Spend your money in the following order - suspension, brakes, engine, and very last, weight reduction. Also, get your car and drive it. It will tell you what needs doing and for each person, the priorities are different. Only change things when you feel it will make a difference, not when others tell you. For instance, one of the best drivers I know of with a 7, an ex international racer, thinks the 7 has enough power and concentrates on brakes and suspension. YOU CHOOSE, not others.
And most of all, enjoy the car.
Apr 9, 2002, 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by snelson
Dark Evo
What I don't understand is why you are so into this lightweight thing. Are you building a race car? For a road car you will not notice the difference. Think about it, how much do you feel the difference between having 1 small passenger in the car with you. I don't believe you will feel it at all. It is worth it for a race car because each lap is measured in 100ths of a second.
In the UK we have a top saloon car racing series where weight is used to try to equal performance. Max weight handicap is 40 kgs and it is believed that makes about half a second per lap. where the lap is about 100 seconds. In other words, half of 1 percent. If you can feel that on the road, you should have a job in motorsort
Dark Evo
What I don't understand is why you are so into this lightweight thing. Are you building a race car? For a road car you will not notice the difference. Think about it, how much do you feel the difference between having 1 small passenger in the car with you. I don't believe you will feel it at all. It is worth it for a race car because each lap is measured in 100ths of a second.
In the UK we have a top saloon car racing series where weight is used to try to equal performance. Max weight handicap is 40 kgs and it is believed that makes about half a second per lap. where the lap is about 100 seconds. In other words, half of 1 percent. If you can feel that on the road, you should have a job in motorsort
then, Simon. I can really feel the difference between me driving alone and someone sitting in the car, I think it's not hard to feel.Dark Evo, don't take advice from old people!! They need noise insulation and air conditioning etc...
But seriously, reduing weight is one of the most effective and economical ways to make your car perform better, just ask what the owner of this site (KK) thinks about it! And before anyone starts: reducing weight is next on my hitlist, but I want to do it properly, i.e. nothing in the car anymore and a full rollcage, so I need to be saving for a little while....
Apr 9, 2002, 07:49 PM
#41
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Michael
Problem with youngsters is they allow imotion to get in the way of logic
To maintain the same power to weight ratio in an Evo, taking out 100kgs is the same as adding 21 bhp. This makes weight reduction both one of the most difficult and expensive ways of improving performance! Unless you car is already producing big power numbers, the money will always be better spent on power rather than weight reduction.
I am interested in how often you travel with a 40 kg passenger because thats what I was refering to. Put adults in the car and you might notice a bit of difference.
What power are you producing, Michael, and how much weight do you hope to save. Which would be easier and cheaper, to increase the power of your car by 21 bhp or get 100 kgs out of the car.?
Interesting debate though
Problem with youngsters is they allow imotion to get in the way of logic
To maintain the same power to weight ratio in an Evo, taking out 100kgs is the same as adding 21 bhp. This makes weight reduction both one of the most difficult and expensive ways of improving performance! Unless you car is already producing big power numbers, the money will always be better spent on power rather than weight reduction.
I am interested in how often you travel with a 40 kg passenger because thats what I was refering to. Put adults in the car and you might notice a bit of difference.
What power are you producing, Michael, and how much weight do you hope to save. Which would be easier and cheaper, to increase the power of your car by 21 bhp or get 100 kgs out of the car.?
Interesting debate though
Apr 9, 2002, 10:03 PM
#42
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old man, you forget the most important factor when reducing weight, looks like all this writing on a US website has made you think only in straight line speed.... 
I will enlighten/remind you: CORNERING!! You should obviously get a better suspension, but to maximise the performance of any suspension make the car lighter! The effect of better cornering through 100kgs less weight will improve the car's overall performance a lot more than adding 21 bhp! Also not only cornering by itself, but also the way the car reacts to sudden weight transfer like on quick chicanes, etc...
It all depends on what you want to do and what your goal is, if you want a hardcore track car, weight reduction is the first thing on the list, if you do it the professional way, guaranteed. How many racecars do you see with aircon/stereos in them because the engineer thought "it's ok, you won't feel the difference anyway"??
I will enlighten/remind you: CORNERING!! You should obviously get a better suspension, but to maximise the performance of any suspension make the car lighter! The effect of better cornering through 100kgs less weight will improve the car's overall performance a lot more than adding 21 bhp! Also not only cornering by itself, but also the way the car reacts to sudden weight transfer like on quick chicanes, etc...
It all depends on what you want to do and what your goal is, if you want a hardcore track car, weight reduction is the first thing on the list, if you do it the professional way, guaranteed. How many racecars do you see with aircon/stereos in them because the engineer thought "it's ok, you won't feel the difference anyway"??
Apr 9, 2002, 10:07 PM
#43
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now the last paragraph in your post:
My car should be putting out about 350 bhp and adding those 21bhp would be rather expensive.
My goal is to rip everything out of the car that is not essential (interior, noise insulation, aircon, standard dash,etc.) and put a cage in it. This should bring at least the 100kg weight saving that you mentioned already taking into account for the weight of a FIA rollcage. This would cost more than getting 21bhp of course, but not if I wouldn't want a cage, then it would just be a few days work....and more weight reduction
My car should be putting out about 350 bhp and adding those 21bhp would be rather expensive.
My goal is to rip everything out of the car that is not essential (interior, noise insulation, aircon, standard dash,etc.) and put a cage in it. This should bring at least the 100kg weight saving that you mentioned already taking into account for the weight of a FIA rollcage. This would cost more than getting 21bhp of course, but not if I wouldn't want a cage, then it would just be a few days work....and more weight reduction
Apr 10, 2002, 07:02 AM
#44
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snelson, I just wanted to know how much weight would be a factor in the Evo? Everyone says that the Evo VII has a disadvantage from the others because it is the heaviest. I just wanted to know if there was a way to lose that disadvantage. Well anyway, this is quite the debate. I just have one more question. So for the best performance, it would be better to get the Evo VII without AYC and get a Cusco LSD? Since it is lighter and more controllable than an Evo VII with AYC. So I will ask again. Is the weight reduction worth it for overall performance?
Apr 10, 2002, 07:37 AM
#45
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weght vs power
I would say that weight is everything in cornering, but we all want power. So, unless you don't need a steering wheel, power your *** up. in my opinion its not even fun unless you're pulling G's sideways baby!