Lancer DE brakes
Jan 24, 2008, 07:40 PM
#16
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jan 25, 2008, 06:23 AM
#17
EvoM Staff Alumni
iTrader: (88)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Concord Township, Ohio
Posts: 8,733
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Reason #2 - that's your choice, but a brake swap is a LOT of money to waste because "drums are ugly." But that's just me. I don't have all the extra money you seem to have, because I can't afford wheels or a turbo kit.
Jan 25, 2008, 02:54 PM
#18
Evolving Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is confusing. I know for a fact that the rear discs were not part of any package on my car...checked the sticker. Maybe a poll will figure out if this is a geographical thing or maybe just the first few production cars had the discs. For DE owners:
1. State or Country?
2. Purchase Date?
2. Options?
3. Rear Discs?
For Me:
1. CA, US
2. 7/1/07
2. No Options
3. Yes, Rear Discs
1. State or Country?
2. Purchase Date?
2. Options?
3. Rear Discs?
For Me:
1. CA, US
2. 7/1/07
2. No Options
3. Yes, Rear Discs
Jan 25, 2008, 04:51 PM
#19
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok. let's settle this once and for all. who thinks i should upgrade to four disc big brakes, and who thinks i should just upgrade to big brakes in the front and leave the drums?
Jan 25, 2008, 05:36 PM
#20
Evolving Member
Point 1: To do this RIGHT will likely cost you a lot of money. If you can do the work yourself, and you found used parts from a wreck, then you might get away for less than $1,000. To pay somebody to do this and using new parts, I'm guessing at least $2,000. I imaging having a dealer do this would be very expensive. You might be able to do a half-baked job for a few hundred. Personally, I wouldn't go half-baked with my brakes.
Point 2: Unless you expect to do repeated, heavy braking (e.g., track) you won't find any benefit in performance.
Point 3: I don't think putting bigger brakes on the front will make much of a difference in performance (see point 2), and it won't solve your issue about not liking the way drums look.
Point 4: The half-baked rear swap will get you the look you want.
If you're serious about this, then start getting some estimates. That's the only way you'll know for sure what your options are. I think you'll find there are better ways to spend your money.
Remember this: Upgrading your brakes will NOT improve your stopping distance in a "panic" stop. In that situation, your braking is limited by your tires (otherwise there would be no point to ABS). Only in repeated heavy braking do the brakes make a difference: bigger brakes dissipate heat better, and discs dissipate heat better than drums.
Point 2: Unless you expect to do repeated, heavy braking (e.g., track) you won't find any benefit in performance.
Point 3: I don't think putting bigger brakes on the front will make much of a difference in performance (see point 2), and it won't solve your issue about not liking the way drums look.
Point 4: The half-baked rear swap will get you the look you want.
If you're serious about this, then start getting some estimates. That's the only way you'll know for sure what your options are. I think you'll find there are better ways to spend your money.
Remember this: Upgrading your brakes will NOT improve your stopping distance in a "panic" stop. In that situation, your braking is limited by your tires (otherwise there would be no point to ABS). Only in repeated heavy braking do the brakes make a difference: bigger brakes dissipate heat better, and discs dissipate heat better than drums.
Jan 25, 2008, 06:23 PM
#22
EvoM Staff Alumni
iTrader: (88)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Concord Township, Ohio
Posts: 8,733
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
- If you mean street racing, then keep the stock brakes (also, don't street race).
- If you mean going to autocrosses, then you don't need a brake upgrade. Just some aftermarket pads and rotors will do it.
- If you mean serious track days or weekend track passes, then you need a BBK.
What are you REALLY going to use the car for? Racing, or grocery getting? Because I know that I race my car (autocross, in case you're wondering) about 1% of the time. So I'm still running 100% stock.
Jan 26, 2008, 05:49 AM
#24
Evolving Member
As someone with both track and autocross experience, I concur that a brake upgrade is a waste of money for autocrossing. Autocrossing simply doesn't heat up your brakes that much--one minute of driving the course followed by ten or fifteen minutes of waiting for your next turn won't allow your brakes to overheat! Suspension and tire upgrades will be a much bigger help for autocrossing. If you really want to make a good investment for autocrossing, buy a second set of wheels and put a good set of competition tires on them (e.g., Hoosiers). You could do that for much less than the cost of swapping rear drums for discs, and that would actually improve the performance of your car!
Razo--the $50 used brake calipers are nice, but obviously that doesn't come close to what Katafuji would need to swap rear drums for calipers.
Kata--do what you want. Just be aware that (1) unless you plan to "track" the car (that means 10 or more minutes at a time on a real road-course-style race track), the brake upgrade will give you NO significant improvement in the performance of the car! (2) A professional upgrade of your rear brakes to discs will cost serious $$$. You might be able to get a sh***y job done for under $1,000, but a crap job probably won't help your performance any, either. Perhaps it would give you the look that you want???
Unfortunately, you bought the DE with rear drums instead of an ES. The Mitsu web site shows a $2,000 difference in the base prices of the DE and ES. To pay a dealer or some other professional to properly upgrade your rear drums to discs will likely cost you that much money. Had you bought the ES you would have gotten the rear discs, alloy wheels, rear sway bar, etc.
If you are really wed to the idea of rear discs, the truly most cost effective way of getting them would be to sell your DE and buy a used ES of comparable mileage. That will also get you the other benefits mentioned above.
Sorry to keep raining on the parade, but very rarely in life do you get something for nothing. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to get nothing for something. In this case, it would be pretty easy to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars while getting no performance enhancement.
Razo--the $50 used brake calipers are nice, but obviously that doesn't come close to what Katafuji would need to swap rear drums for calipers.
Kata--do what you want. Just be aware that (1) unless you plan to "track" the car (that means 10 or more minutes at a time on a real road-course-style race track), the brake upgrade will give you NO significant improvement in the performance of the car! (2) A professional upgrade of your rear brakes to discs will cost serious $$$. You might be able to get a sh***y job done for under $1,000, but a crap job probably won't help your performance any, either. Perhaps it would give you the look that you want???
Unfortunately, you bought the DE with rear drums instead of an ES. The Mitsu web site shows a $2,000 difference in the base prices of the DE and ES. To pay a dealer or some other professional to properly upgrade your rear drums to discs will likely cost you that much money. Had you bought the ES you would have gotten the rear discs, alloy wheels, rear sway bar, etc.
If you are really wed to the idea of rear discs, the truly most cost effective way of getting them would be to sell your DE and buy a used ES of comparable mileage. That will also get you the other benefits mentioned above.
Sorry to keep raining on the parade, but very rarely in life do you get something for nothing. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to get nothing for something. In this case, it would be pretty easy to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars while getting no performance enhancement.
Jan 26, 2008, 03:35 PM
#26
Evolving Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would sit tight and see what the aftermarket and racers find. I ran my '08 Lancer DE (4WDiscs) on stock brakes and only a pad and fluid upgrade at full race speeds for 14 hrs straight, with one pad failure likely due to tolerance issues with the custom cut pads. I'm planning on raising the horsepower with a turbo as well, and my upgrade path will be as follows:
Upgrade front discs to GTS/Outlander units...straight bolt on, and the parts may be available in a junkyard at this point. I think four piston calipers on this car are overkill as even with a mild turbo kit it is neither heavy nor fast enough to require it unless you dump an evo motor in. Also, upgrading the rear more than the front allows my to install a brake bias and really be able to fine tune the brakes for differing weights, tires, tracks, etc. as the car evolves.
Upgrade rear discs to EvoVIII calipers on stock GTS/Outlander rear rotors. This should be enough for 220whp or so in a 2800 lb car at full race speeds.
Upgrading to GTS spec would only require front and rear calipers and new rotors...I'm willing to be the master cylinder is the same part number. The rear spindles should be able to accept drum or disc, but I'm not positive on that, also you need to make sure the rear hub/bearing unit is the same as well. Dealers can look up part numbers on this stuff. Don't forget to remove the rear-drum check valve from the master cylinder as the article mentions. Depending on how much you pay for the calipers, this upgrade could be a very good value proposition.
The GTS brakes with good fluid and pads should be OK even on stock rotors with a turbo kit. My motivation to make more changes has to do with the long term problems associated with single piston calipers and endurance race cars. You will likely not see any problems on a tracked street car like I saw in the 25 Hour.
Upgrade front discs to GTS/Outlander units...straight bolt on, and the parts may be available in a junkyard at this point. I think four piston calipers on this car are overkill as even with a mild turbo kit it is neither heavy nor fast enough to require it unless you dump an evo motor in. Also, upgrading the rear more than the front allows my to install a brake bias and really be able to fine tune the brakes for differing weights, tires, tracks, etc. as the car evolves.
Upgrade rear discs to EvoVIII calipers on stock GTS/Outlander rear rotors. This should be enough for 220whp or so in a 2800 lb car at full race speeds.
Upgrading to GTS spec would only require front and rear calipers and new rotors...I'm willing to be the master cylinder is the same part number. The rear spindles should be able to accept drum or disc, but I'm not positive on that, also you need to make sure the rear hub/bearing unit is the same as well. Dealers can look up part numbers on this stuff. Don't forget to remove the rear-drum check valve from the master cylinder as the article mentions. Depending on how much you pay for the calipers, this upgrade could be a very good value proposition.
The GTS brakes with good fluid and pads should be OK even on stock rotors with a turbo kit. My motivation to make more changes has to do with the long term problems associated with single piston calipers and endurance race cars. You will likely not see any problems on a tracked street car like I saw in the 25 Hour.
Jan 26, 2008, 04:18 PM
#27
You should do it if you have the money.
Otherwise, don't bother.
I doubt people looking at your car, are going to be looking at your brakes.
Like when I first saw an Evo, I never looked at the brakes
and I knew they were Brembo, all i wanted to see was that engine! :]
Otherwise, don't bother.
I doubt people looking at your car, are going to be looking at your brakes.
Like when I first saw an Evo, I never looked at the brakes
and I knew they were Brembo, all i wanted to see was that engine! :]
