EVOfunk

BTW, he was using 93oct and DRs.

3000ways

Thank you for this, I've questioned this myself and 100whp with a tune??? Seriously I respect the 335i it is a very quick car, but the power it is making just hasn't been translating to track. Also the 335i around here are starting at $42,000 and up and a Procede and Exhaust is like a $2,500 purchase, for that money any EVO IX owner would be making over 100whp from stock. Please read this also from e90post-

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65028

Next time someone shows you a 335i dyno graph, make sure you know all the variables involved, before you use that as the sole reason for justifing a purchase. The combination of a turbo car, a smart ECU, assumptions of the dyno software, and a little bit of ignorance can lead to some very large, and very FALSE 335i dyno numbers!

Consider this a public service annoucement, with the proof to back it up.

I noticed that lots of people around here love to brag about high stock dyno numbers, and then I look at their graph and see something that makes me lose all trust in it... here is an example.

this is my ACTUAL 335i dyno, STOCK, as given to me by the dyno shop

CHECK IT OUT GUYS... I HAVE THE FASTEST STOCK 335 IN THE WORLD!! (or so it seems)

Anyone who can look at the graph, and tell me why its probably false, and cant be trusted is already a step ahead. Good job.

The answer? SAE correction.
Now thats not saying all graphs with SAE are false... no.. just the ones on a 335i turbo engine with a stock ECU that already compensates, and then with a CF over 1.0 are actually inflated. Piggybacks included... because these still use the stock ecu for adaptation and correction.

Unlike most cars that would lose significant HP and TQ under extreme conditions, the 335 ecu automatically adapts to keep power output at stock levels, even when the enviroment variables SUCK(hot air, high humitidy and altitude).

That means that the dyno software doesnt need to calculate it... our cars are doing it for us! And these graphs prove it.

How does it do that?

well... its complicated, but its my understanding that basically it uses the T-MAP and Baro sensors to sense pressure and Tempurature, and then keeps final boost pressure, and also fuel and timing in check with the closed loop wideband o2 system that constantly monitors AFR, and adjusts fuel, timing, and boost in realtime to acheive the same final power output under varrying conditions.

Here is my STOCK dyno graph. This is how it was handed to me after the runs, and the whole shop about pissed their pants. Dont get all exited about the numbers, as you can see, they are SAE corrected.



392hp at the wheels??? you gotta be crazy to beleive that!

So we switched to STD correction (which shiv@vishnu ussually prefers because its closest to 1.0 at his shop)



Ok, thats still way too high... lets turn off ALL correction. A CF factor of 1.0 Just the RAW numbers that the dyno read.



Wow, those numbers look exactly like where a stock 335 should dyno at!

What does this mean?

Well, for me personally, it means that I will NEVER trust a 335i dyno graph with anything that isnt close to a 1.0 Correction Factor... because thats the actually power output. Never beleive a corrected 335i dyno graph, unless they show you the correction factor.

Anything else is just inflated or deflated because of 2 correction systems (the one in the 335, and the one in the dyno software) working with eachother doing the same thing, and making false numbers.

Those of you getting your 335i's dyno'd should request dyno graphs that are uncorrected, so you can see the real numbers that the car put down.

Below are the conditions during the dyno runs... these line up with the runs above. they were 10 seconds apart, notice how each run gets hotter(it was a small room), yet the 335 did not lose power! (it actually gained power as it got heatsoaked!) That is the 335i adaptation and realtime enviromental correction in action.

You can also see how on the SAE graph, as the TEMP got hotter, it applied MORE correction, and therefor the hotter run showed even MORE power... since the ECU already adapted for the hot air.

We have a very smart car on our hands, and this is a testiment to how well a device like turbo tuner, or something as simple as the "terry tuner", or better yet a PROcede/Xede system will work to raise power output... a little fooling of the ECU, and you just gained a ton of power that was already in the "reserves".
Attached Images

4-BNGR

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, that's the beauty of FI. But you can do better with an E36 M3 OBDI and strap on a Garett t-60 and make the same power at a fraction of the cost. On a side note, you're a fool if you buy a e90 M3 over the TT.

Oh and I'm not a BMW hater. I own a 1.9L Z3 and it's Supercharged among other things...

3000ways

So here is my beef, the BMW 335i is a great car but it does have some drawbacks-

#1- Starting price at like $42,000 and up. I mean seriously the price is approaching the price tag of the old E46 BMW M3.

#2- Big dyno numbers and un-proven track numbers.

#3- The 335i does in my opinion respond well to modifications, but it suffers the same problem that all Euros suffer from- It is expensive the modify stage one Vishnu is a $2665 modification. I realize there are cheaper tuner devices, but these cheaper tuner devices do not make nearly as much power and in my opinion are still expensive, just not Procede expensive.

#4- After bolt ons then what, I want to see how many of these BMW 335is make over 450whp+ and how much it ends up costing someone and how these 450whp dyno translate at the track. Because so far the 350whp+ ones are struggling to even trap higher than 109mph.

Is the BMW 335i a great car, yes, but as far as the tuning world goes, it still has a lot to prove.

CAD EVO

iTrader: (22)

Very Very Interesting 3000ways, all these graphs and Bimmer boys saying evo this 335 that bla bla bla, Ive yet to encounter one that could handle my BPU 05 evo. 400 whp?? right.

NoTec

iTrader: (4)

Again the car is a nice alternative to those who find the IX a little too raw. Shiv has been real when it comes to dynos. He has been real from day 1. Launching a 335i is very difficult. Its going to be interesting to see what happens when the 335xi's start hitting the tracks with the Procede equipped. Don't forget that the dyno run in that post is just an update and the software still needs work.

Rez90

iTrader: (17)

there is no doubt that the 335 will be my wife/family car...........can't wait.

grillpt

iTrader: (24)

I have a bunch of friends that are BMW machanics and they tell me that BMW is pulling these things off the lots due to problems with the fuel pressure. They run something like 200lbs of fuel pressure and the pumps are failing. This is a major concern when it comes to tuning IMO.

NoTec

iTrader: (4)

Two pumps in this car. One high pressure( the problem) aand one low pressure. The high preessure unit in the engine bay has a design flaw that usally causes fuel pump death rather soon. Some stop working within 1 month of ownership. The car is still a great car though.

grillpt

iTrader: (24)

I agree it's a great car, but that isn't the sort of thing you want to happen when,
A) You spend all that $
B) You start tunning on it and running it real hard

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to park one in my driveway.

silvrevo

iTrader: (6)

Carlos, do you have a 335? You have it in your signature. I seen you over on the e90 post.

3000ways,, very interesting stuff,,, kinda a slap back to reality.

I have been eyeing the 335i for sometime now. hopefully the 2008 will get a few things sorted out. I have only gotten to sit in one , and that was like 5 months ago. It felt really nice inside, very roomy. But now there is a wait, no on the lots, pretty much you have to have one built.

I want to see the 335ix coupe thou. Althou I have heard you dont want an awd bimmer,, it ruins the driving experience. But if can hook and go with 400lb ft. lol,, Im in.

How ever when I was at the Bimmer dealer i seen and drove somthing else that has me ,,,, excitied.

It was the z4 3.0si coupe. OMG so nice. Plenty of power, great pull, and the exhaust note, beautiful. I have been kicking arounfd the idea of this car for a while also. The battery is in the trunk, under the floor board,, very cool.

tonykart125

I don't know what to think abot that.

EVOfunk

Yes, but only the 6-speed manual version. Launching the auto is trouble free, just point and shoot. It's even faster than the standard tranny version since it has closer ratios in the first 4 gears.

EVOfunk

True, true, true.

That was my whole point. My best friend Carlos already ordered a 335i (auto) and I think that is the best car $40k can buy but by no means the fastest. The Procede kit gains are overwhelming on the dyno but at the track they are not too relevant: .3 sec/3 mph gains. There's still a lot of R&D going on with the 335 and is just a matter of time they improve at the track, but so far, 340whp/380lb/ft. will only get you to 13 flat at 106-108mph. OK, so we can blame the slow ET to traction issues, but what keeps me skeptic is the relation between WHP and trap speed. 340whp=107mph? No way Jose. My Evo with just 300whp was very close to 115mph. C'mon.

...and then is the bombardment of youtube videos on e90post.com where you can see 335s destroying modded Evos (even with nitrous!) Supercharged M5s, AMGs, Z06s, Vipers...

thatguy

iTrader: (5)

Breaking anything on the bmw sounds very expensive.

With the evo you have a slew of aftermarket support in tc, transmissions, axles and or pretty much any component you can break you can get it replaced fairly easy, with the 335i I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I think it would be a great car to DD and keep bone stock, in fact my E39 has been relatively trouble-free and is a great car, but the actual cost of replacement parts for any Euro car can be much more expensive than the japanese components.

I do think this car has a slew of potential but am still uneasy about doing any modifications b/c just like the evo warranties can and will get denied due to abuse.