BMW 335I making extra 100whp/126lbtq with a tune
Jun 8, 2007, 03:22 PM
#31
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True, true, true.
That was my whole point. My best friend Carlos already ordered a 335i (auto) and I think that is the best car $40k can buy but by no means the fastest. The Procede kit gains are overwhelming on the dyno but at the track they are not too relevant: .3 sec/3 mph gains. There's still a lot of R&D going on with the 335 and is just a matter of time they improve at the track, but so far, 340whp/380lb/ft. will only get you to 13 flat at 106-108mph. OK, so we can blame the slow ET to traction issues, but what keeps me skeptic is the relation between WHP and trap speed. 340whp=107mph? No way Jose. My Evo with just 300whp was very close to 115mph. C'mon.
...and then is the bombardment of youtube videos on e90post.com where you can see 335s destroying modded Evos (even with nitrous!) Supercharged M5s, AMGs, Z06s, Vipers...
That was my whole point. My best friend Carlos already ordered a 335i (auto) and I think that is the best car $40k can buy but by no means the fastest. The Procede kit gains are overwhelming on the dyno but at the track they are not too relevant: .3 sec/3 mph gains. There's still a lot of R&D going on with the 335 and is just a matter of time they improve at the track, but so far, 340whp/380lb/ft. will only get you to 13 flat at 106-108mph. OK, so we can blame the slow ET to traction issues, but what keeps me skeptic is the relation between WHP and trap speed. 340whp=107mph? No way Jose. My Evo with just 300whp was very close to 115mph. C'mon.
...and then is the bombardment of youtube videos on e90post.com where you can see 335s destroying modded Evos (even with nitrous!) Supercharged M5s, AMGs, Z06s, Vipers...
Marcos
Jun 8, 2007, 03:44 PM
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Thank you for this, I've questioned this myself and 100whp with a tune??? Seriously I respect the 335i it is a very quick car, but the power it is making just hasn't been translating to track. Also the 335i around here are starting at $42,000 and up and a Procede and Exhaust is like a $2,500 purchase, for that money any EVO IX owner would be making over 100whp from stock. Please read this also from e90post-
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65028
Next time someone shows you a 335i dyno graph, make sure you know all the variables involved, before you use that as the sole reason for justifing a purchase. The combination of a turbo car, a smart ECU, assumptions of the dyno software, and a little bit of ignorance can lead to some very large, and very FALSE 335i dyno numbers!
Consider this a public service annoucement, with the proof to back it up.
I noticed that lots of people around here love to brag about high stock dyno numbers, and then I look at their graph and see something that makes me lose all trust in it... here is an example.
this is my ACTUAL 335i dyno, STOCK, as given to me by the dyno shop
CHECK IT OUT GUYS... I HAVE THE FASTEST STOCK 335 IN THE WORLD!! (or so it seems)
Anyone who can look at the graph, and tell me why its probably false, and cant be trusted is already a step ahead. Good job.
The answer? SAE correction.
Now thats not saying all graphs with SAE are false... no.. just the ones on a 335i turbo engine with a stock ECU that already compensates, and then with a CF over 1.0 are actually inflated. Piggybacks included... because these still use the stock ecu for adaptation and correction.
Unlike most cars that would lose significant HP and TQ under extreme conditions, the 335 ecu automatically adapts to keep power output at stock levels, even when the enviroment variables SUCK(hot air, high humitidy and altitude).
That means that the dyno software doesnt need to calculate it... our cars are doing it for us! And these graphs prove it.
How does it do that?
well... its complicated, but its my understanding that basically it uses the T-MAP and Baro sensors to sense pressure and Tempurature, and then keeps final boost pressure, and also fuel and timing in check with the closed loop wideband o2 system that constantly monitors AFR, and adjusts fuel, timing, and boost in realtime to acheive the same final power output under varrying conditions.
Here is my STOCK dyno graph. This is how it was handed to me after the runs, and the whole shop about pissed their pants. Dont get all exited about the numbers, as you can see, they are SAE corrected.
392hp at the wheels??? you gotta be crazy to beleive that!
So we switched to STD correction (which shiv@vishnu ussually prefers because its closest to 1.0 at his shop)
Ok, thats still way too high... lets turn off ALL correction. A CF factor of 1.0 Just the RAW numbers that the dyno read.
Wow, those numbers look exactly like where a stock 335 should dyno at!
What does this mean?
Well, for me personally, it means that I will NEVER trust a 335i dyno graph with anything that isnt close to a 1.0 Correction Factor... because thats the actually power output. Never beleive a corrected 335i dyno graph, unless they show you the correction factor.
Anything else is just inflated or deflated because of 2 correction systems (the one in the 335, and the one in the dyno software) working with eachother doing the same thing, and making false numbers.
Those of you getting your 335i's dyno'd should request dyno graphs that are uncorrected, so you can see the real numbers that the car put down.
Below are the conditions during the dyno runs... these line up with the runs above. they were 10 seconds apart, notice how each run gets hotter(it was a small room), yet the 335 did not lose power! (it actually gained power as it got heatsoaked!) That is the 335i adaptation and realtime enviromental correction in action.
You can also see how on the SAE graph, as the TEMP got hotter, it applied MORE correction, and therefor the hotter run showed even MORE power... since the ECU already adapted for the hot air.
We have a very smart car on our hands, and this is a testiment to how well a device like turbo tuner, or something as simple as the "terry tuner", or better yet a PROcede/Xede system will work to raise power output... a little fooling of the ECU, and you just gained a ton of power that was already in the "reserves".
Attached Images
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65028
Next time someone shows you a 335i dyno graph, make sure you know all the variables involved, before you use that as the sole reason for justifing a purchase. The combination of a turbo car, a smart ECU, assumptions of the dyno software, and a little bit of ignorance can lead to some very large, and very FALSE 335i dyno numbers!
Consider this a public service annoucement, with the proof to back it up.
I noticed that lots of people around here love to brag about high stock dyno numbers, and then I look at their graph and see something that makes me lose all trust in it... here is an example.
this is my ACTUAL 335i dyno, STOCK, as given to me by the dyno shop
CHECK IT OUT GUYS... I HAVE THE FASTEST STOCK 335 IN THE WORLD!! (or so it seems)
Anyone who can look at the graph, and tell me why its probably false, and cant be trusted is already a step ahead. Good job.
The answer? SAE correction.
Now thats not saying all graphs with SAE are false... no.. just the ones on a 335i turbo engine with a stock ECU that already compensates, and then with a CF over 1.0 are actually inflated. Piggybacks included... because these still use the stock ecu for adaptation and correction.
Unlike most cars that would lose significant HP and TQ under extreme conditions, the 335 ecu automatically adapts to keep power output at stock levels, even when the enviroment variables SUCK(hot air, high humitidy and altitude).
That means that the dyno software doesnt need to calculate it... our cars are doing it for us! And these graphs prove it.
How does it do that?
well... its complicated, but its my understanding that basically it uses the T-MAP and Baro sensors to sense pressure and Tempurature, and then keeps final boost pressure, and also fuel and timing in check with the closed loop wideband o2 system that constantly monitors AFR, and adjusts fuel, timing, and boost in realtime to acheive the same final power output under varrying conditions.
Here is my STOCK dyno graph. This is how it was handed to me after the runs, and the whole shop about pissed their pants. Dont get all exited about the numbers, as you can see, they are SAE corrected.
392hp at the wheels??? you gotta be crazy to beleive that!
So we switched to STD correction (which shiv@vishnu ussually prefers because its closest to 1.0 at his shop)
Ok, thats still way too high... lets turn off ALL correction. A CF factor of 1.0 Just the RAW numbers that the dyno read.
Wow, those numbers look exactly like where a stock 335 should dyno at!
What does this mean?
Well, for me personally, it means that I will NEVER trust a 335i dyno graph with anything that isnt close to a 1.0 Correction Factor... because thats the actually power output. Never beleive a corrected 335i dyno graph, unless they show you the correction factor.
Anything else is just inflated or deflated because of 2 correction systems (the one in the 335, and the one in the dyno software) working with eachother doing the same thing, and making false numbers.
Those of you getting your 335i's dyno'd should request dyno graphs that are uncorrected, so you can see the real numbers that the car put down.
Below are the conditions during the dyno runs... these line up with the runs above. they were 10 seconds apart, notice how each run gets hotter(it was a small room), yet the 335 did not lose power! (it actually gained power as it got heatsoaked!) That is the 335i adaptation and realtime enviromental correction in action.
You can also see how on the SAE graph, as the TEMP got hotter, it applied MORE correction, and therefor the hotter run showed even MORE power... since the ECU already adapted for the hot air.
We have a very smart car on our hands, and this is a testiment to how well a device like turbo tuner, or something as simple as the "terry tuner", or better yet a PROcede/Xede system will work to raise power output... a little fooling of the ECU, and you just gained a ton of power that was already in the "reserves".
Attached Images
Hmmm...where to start...
Well, the 335 ecu may well indeed correct for weather. What it means is its most likely varying the boost level somewhat (and therefore timing addition and subtraction) to compensate for poor air density. For example, if it was a MAS air metered car, the computer is probably programmed to run sufficient boost to hit "x" lb/min of air and can raise or lower the boost level to achieve it under different weather conditions. You'll probably be running a good bit less boost on cold days
The difference is that The dyno corrects the amount of power made at the wheels to ideal conditions to make more sense out of comparying numbers from the same dyno under different weather circumstances. The main problems with correction factors is that they are terrible to use with forced induction cars at altitude as the almost always inflate the numbers too much.. Add to that the fact that certain variables of the correction factor are under human control (being entered into the computer) and you can get some very drastic changes.
Jun 8, 2007, 04:02 PM
#33
Honestly it looks more like the person who owns that dyno has a bad weather station. the correction factors take into account ambient air temperature, barrometric pressure etc. It doesnt matter what the ECU compensates for as that dyno is reading independantly of it.
The fact that the numbers are changing so dramatically when you change the correction factor means the varbiables that are being changed are being done due to the fact that the weather station is inputting incorrect data
What this seems like a clear case of is a dyno weather station is WAAAY out of whack. Im willing to bet the barrometric pressure reading is HORRIBLY off.
Eric
The fact that the numbers are changing so dramatically when you change the correction factor means the varbiables that are being changed are being done due to the fact that the weather station is inputting incorrect data
What this seems like a clear case of is a dyno weather station is WAAAY out of whack. Im willing to bet the barrometric pressure reading is HORRIBLY off.
Eric
Last edited by AutoMotoSports; Jun 8, 2007 at 04:12 PM.
Jun 8, 2007, 06:13 PM
#34
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I have a bunch of friends that are BMW machanics and they tell me that BMW is pulling these things off the lots due to problems with the fuel pressure. They run something like 200lbs of fuel pressure and the pumps are failing. This is a major concern when it comes to tuning IMO.
1bar=14.7psi
200bar=2940psi
Jun 8, 2007, 06:43 PM
#35
This car was never made for 1/4 mile times, in fact the weight and lack of rear LSD inclines me to think that the car was never remotely invented, created or engineered for 1/4 mile times but in fact for a comfort hwy driving and what not.
My main post was focused on power gains. You might like the body style or hated it, you might think the car is expensive or affordable but I was comenting on the power gains from a tune.
Yes indeed it looks like the "fastest" BMW 335i "only" runs 12.5 sec at "only" 109 miles on 93oct and radials, too bad the car weights 3600lbs and the driver was 267lbs plus helmet and clothing, then the gas, lets just round the number to 4000lbs track ready.
Uhmm, lets see, a 4000lbs mass launching without even a rear LSD? Cmon, give me a break , you guys see green but not red color?.
Sergio, there are very few BMW 335i with Procedes that actually took their cars to the track, from what I know maybe what, 10 of them? I have had faith on this car since day one. This engine put already galactical numbers on the dyno with medium size turbo. BMW engineers decided to turn down the project because BMW marketing was aiming for a car with turbolag free.
You must watch the video that I am refering to. They created a nearly 500 monster out of the box and finally decided to fit it with tiny turbos to compensate for the turbolag. This engine could have been a real monster but was turned down for a more civilized "street version".
I am not saying they are sick fast but I can't see any European competitor that can compite with the whole package of performance for the price that the BMW offers, Can you?
Sergio, the 135i with AWD is around the corner, they say September, I would like to see how they compare.
Cheers
Carlos
My main post was focused on power gains. You might like the body style or hated it, you might think the car is expensive or affordable but I was comenting on the power gains from a tune.
Yes indeed it looks like the "fastest" BMW 335i "only" runs 12.5 sec at "only" 109 miles on 93oct and radials, too bad the car weights 3600lbs and the driver was 267lbs plus helmet and clothing, then the gas, lets just round the number to 4000lbs track ready.
Uhmm, lets see, a 4000lbs mass launching without even a rear LSD? Cmon, give me a break , you guys see green but not red color?.
Sergio, there are very few BMW 335i with Procedes that actually took their cars to the track, from what I know maybe what, 10 of them? I have had faith on this car since day one. This engine put already galactical numbers on the dyno with medium size turbo. BMW engineers decided to turn down the project because BMW marketing was aiming for a car with turbolag free.
You must watch the video that I am refering to. They created a nearly 500 monster out of the box and finally decided to fit it with tiny turbos to compensate for the turbolag. This engine could have been a real monster but was turned down for a more civilized "street version".
I am not saying they are sick fast but I can't see any European competitor that can compite with the whole package of performance for the price that the BMW offers, Can you?
Sergio, the 135i with AWD is around the corner, they say September, I would like to see how they compare.
CheersCarlos
Last edited by fromWRXtoEVO; Jun 8, 2007 at 06:46 PM.
Jun 8, 2007, 06:56 PM
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Sergio, the 135i with AWD is around the corner, they say September, I would like to see how they compare.
Cheers
Carlos[/QUOTE]
I read about in Car and Driver magazine this month. I'm very interested in this car myself since it has turbos and is AWD.
CheersCarlos[/QUOTE]
I read about in Car and Driver magazine this month. I'm very interested in this car myself since it has turbos and is AWD.
Last edited by gaulrich2003; Jun 8, 2007 at 06:58 PM.
Jun 8, 2007, 07:47 PM
#37
Sergio(Evofunk),
Just for the heck of it lets look at some numbers:
Your Evo put 300 whp Mustang Dyno which equals to what? 345whp AWD on a Dynojet?(I am using the 15% increase that everyone talks. Then convert that to 2WD which is roughly what, 365whp? more/ less agree to this point?
Your Evo 8 weighted what? 3200lbs-3225lbs with the weight reduction plus your roughly 210-220lbs with helmet and clothing, right?
Lets switch to the BMW 335I. The guy that ran 12.5 had the old V1.45 software version which was roughly 330whp and 380lb/tq. Now lets see what weight he was packing, 3600lbs plus 267lbs driver plus some gas=4000lbs.
BMW 335 i had 330whp and 4000lbs is a power to ratio of 12.1lbs per whp
Your Evo 8 had 365whp (2WD) with 3400lbs= 9.3lbs per whp
So Sergio, I am going to give you a taste of your own medicine! I know you love numbers, that is what you and me(best friends) have been doing for the last 20 years, analizing cars magazines that we collected since the early 80's back in Europe. You know I am right and I know I am right. So far we are apllying the logic to the equation, we are giving the numbers out so that people can make their own conclusions.
I don't have to say much more, look at the numbers then you will understand why a 12.5 sec is a great number for a car without rear LSD and a weight of 4000lbs and with a power to weight ratio of 12.1lbs per whp.
No wonder why you could run 12.0 on your Evo with a power to weight ratio of 9.1lbs/whp. Could you do the same without an AWD car that has a rwd without rear LSD? Try adding 600lbs to your Evo and take away 35whp to it.
Uhmm.. now the BMW 335i times don't look that slow right? Yes, I know, the Evos drags drivetrain losses but it also recups it on the launching.
Fairness is the game when making opinions. Lets the facts speak!!Speaking of fairness, your quote of "12.5 sec is the fastest BMW 335I in the world" yes, it is the fastest 335I in the world by default. There are no fastest 335i in the world because there are only very few 335i in the world with same mods that ran at the track.
If Chris rock moves to China to live, he would probably be the only black actor in the entire China (1200 million inhabitants). An if David hasslhoff were to move to Japan, he would be indeed taller than 99.99% of any other inhabitant of the entire country.
My .2c
Carlos
Just for the heck of it lets look at some numbers:
Your Evo put 300 whp Mustang Dyno which equals to what? 345whp AWD on a Dynojet?(I am using the 15% increase that everyone talks. Then convert that to 2WD which is roughly what, 365whp? more/ less agree to this point?
Your Evo 8 weighted what? 3200lbs-3225lbs with the weight reduction plus your roughly 210-220lbs with helmet and clothing, right?
Lets switch to the BMW 335I. The guy that ran 12.5 had the old V1.45 software version which was roughly 330whp and 380lb/tq. Now lets see what weight he was packing, 3600lbs plus 267lbs driver plus some gas=4000lbs.
BMW 335 i had 330whp and 4000lbs is a power to ratio of 12.1lbs per whp
Your Evo 8 had 365whp (2WD) with 3400lbs= 9.3lbs per whp
So Sergio, I am going to give you a taste of your own medicine! I know you love numbers, that is what you and me(best friends) have been doing for the last 20 years, analizing cars magazines that we collected since the early 80's back in Europe. You know I am right and I know I am right. So far we are apllying the logic to the equation, we are giving the numbers out so that people can make their own conclusions.
I don't have to say much more, look at the numbers then you will understand why a 12.5 sec is a great number for a car without rear LSD and a weight of 4000lbs and with a power to weight ratio of 12.1lbs per whp.
No wonder why you could run 12.0 on your Evo with a power to weight ratio of 9.1lbs/whp. Could you do the same without an AWD car that has a rwd without rear LSD?
Try adding 600lbs to your Evo and take away 35whp to it.Uhmm.. now the BMW 335i times don't look that slow right? Yes, I know, the Evos drags drivetrain losses but it also recups it on the launching.
Fairness is the game when making opinions. Lets the facts speak!!Speaking of fairness, your quote of "12.5 sec is the fastest BMW 335I in the world" yes, it is the fastest 335I in the world by default. There are no fastest 335i in the world because there are only very few 335i in the world with same mods that ran at the track.
If Chris rock moves to China to live, he would probably be the only black actor in the entire China (1200 million inhabitants). An if David hasslhoff were to move to Japan, he would be indeed taller than 99.99% of any other inhabitant of the entire country.
My .2c
Carlos
Last edited by fromWRXtoEVO; Jun 8, 2007 at 11:19 PM.
Jun 8, 2007, 10:48 PM
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Jun 8, 2007, 10:51 PM
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carlos, i just had a 535 w/ a sport package and it was awsome. very impresed. i liked it alot. it was packged up w/ the older E60 545/550 wheels and was really nice. i think that it could walk and earlier E60 545 no problem!
im thinking about seriouslly getting one!!!!!!!
im thinking about seriouslly getting one!!!!!!!
Jun 8, 2007, 11:16 PM
#41
You should!! Seriously, you should consider getting one. You know you are not going to be dissapointed. It would be marginally slower than a Evo, but the ride quality will pay off. Insurance and gas mileage will get you another $50/month in the pocket as well.
Or, you could wait for the 135I, even faster and cheaper..
Carlos
Or, you could wait for the 135I, even faster and cheaper..
Carlos
Jun 8, 2007, 11:28 PM
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You should!! Seriously, you should consider getting one. You know you are not going to be dissapointed. It would be marginally slower than a Evo, but the ride quality will pay off. Insurance and gas mileage will get you another $50/month in the pocket as well.
Or, you could wait for the 135I, even faster and cheaper..
Carlos
Or, you could wait for the 135I, even faster and cheaper..
Carlos
i really liked it though and the E60 is one of my favorite cars. alot of people dont understand but they dont drive them so its impossible to explain!
oh, i think the "135I" is gonna be the M1, not sure though???
Jun 9, 2007, 12:25 AM
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Sergio(Evofunk),
Just for the heck of it lets look at some numbers:
Your Evo put 300 whp Mustang Dyno which equals to what? 345whp AWD on a Dynojet?(I am using the 15% increase that everyone talks. Then convert that to 2WD which is roughly what, 365whp? more/ less agree to this point?
Your Evo 8 weighted what? 3200lbs-3225lbs with the weight reduction plus your roughly 210-220lbs with helmet and clothing, right?
Lets switch to the BMW 335I. The guy that ran 12.5 had the old V1.45 software version which was roughly 330whp and 380lb/tq. Now lets see what weight he was packing, 3600lbs plus 267lbs driver plus some gas=4000lbs.
BMW 335 i had 330whp and 4000lbs is a power to ratio of 12.1lbs per whp
Your Evo 8 had 365whp (2WD) with 3400lbs= 9.3lbs per whp
So Sergio, I am going to give you a taste of your own medicine! I know you love numbers, that is what you and me(best friends) have been doing for the last 20 years, analizing cars magazines that we collected since the early 80's back in Europe. You know I am right and I know I am right. So far we are apllying the logic to the equation, we are giving the numbers out so that people can make their own conclusions.
I don't have to say much more, look at the numbers then you will understand why a 12.5 sec is a great number for a car without rear LSD and a weight of 4000lbs and with a power to weight ratio of 12.1lbs per whp.
No wonder why you could run 12.0 on your Evo with a power to weight ratio of 9.1lbs/whp. Could you do the same without an AWD car that has a rwd without rear LSD? Try adding 600lbs to your Evo and take away 35whp to it.
Uhmm.. now the BMW 335i times don't look that slow right? Yes, I know, the Evos drags drivetrain losses but it also recups it on the launching.
Fairness is the game when making opinions. Lets the facts speak!!Speaking of fairness, your quote of "12.5 sec is the fastest BMW 335I in the world" yes, it is the fastest 335I in the world by default. There are no fastest 335i in the world because there are only very few 335i in the world with same mods that ran at the track.
If Chris rock moves to China to live, he would probably be the only black actor in the entire China (1200 million inhabitants). An if David hasslhoff were to move to Japan, he would be indeed taller than 99.99% of any other inhabitant of the entire country.
My .2c
Carlos
Just for the heck of it lets look at some numbers:
Your Evo put 300 whp Mustang Dyno which equals to what? 345whp AWD on a Dynojet?(I am using the 15% increase that everyone talks. Then convert that to 2WD which is roughly what, 365whp? more/ less agree to this point?
Your Evo 8 weighted what? 3200lbs-3225lbs with the weight reduction plus your roughly 210-220lbs with helmet and clothing, right?
Lets switch to the BMW 335I. The guy that ran 12.5 had the old V1.45 software version which was roughly 330whp and 380lb/tq. Now lets see what weight he was packing, 3600lbs plus 267lbs driver plus some gas=4000lbs.
BMW 335 i had 330whp and 4000lbs is a power to ratio of 12.1lbs per whp
Your Evo 8 had 365whp (2WD) with 3400lbs= 9.3lbs per whp
So Sergio, I am going to give you a taste of your own medicine! I know you love numbers, that is what you and me(best friends) have been doing for the last 20 years, analizing cars magazines that we collected since the early 80's back in Europe. You know I am right and I know I am right. So far we are apllying the logic to the equation, we are giving the numbers out so that people can make their own conclusions.
I don't have to say much more, look at the numbers then you will understand why a 12.5 sec is a great number for a car without rear LSD and a weight of 4000lbs and with a power to weight ratio of 12.1lbs per whp.
No wonder why you could run 12.0 on your Evo with a power to weight ratio of 9.1lbs/whp. Could you do the same without an AWD car that has a rwd without rear LSD?
Try adding 600lbs to your Evo and take away 35whp to it.Uhmm.. now the BMW 335i times don't look that slow right? Yes, I know, the Evos drags drivetrain losses but it also recups it on the launching.
Fairness is the game when making opinions. Lets the facts speak!!Speaking of fairness, your quote of "12.5 sec is the fastest BMW 335I in the world" yes, it is the fastest 335I in the world by default. There are no fastest 335i in the world because there are only very few 335i in the world with same mods that ran at the track.
If Chris rock moves to China to live, he would probably be the only black actor in the entire China (1200 million inhabitants). An if David hasslhoff were to move to Japan, he would be indeed taller than 99.99% of any other inhabitant of the entire country.
My .2c
Carlos
Carlitos, I love your last paragraph.
First off, I never said that 335s are slow, especially on Procede form. How could I? Straight line wise, 335s are literally embarrassing M3s up and down left and right, and their passing abilities are up to fairly modified Evos.
Second, I think that you are overexagerating the power to ratio on both cars: The 335 weighs 3,600lbs. with a FULL TANK. Manufacturers' weight specs for their vehicles include a full tank of gas, so 3600lbs 335 with a 265lb. driver leaves it at 3,865lbs, not 4,000. Same goes for the "365whp status" you are applying to my Evo. Look at my sig, is 300whp Mustang whp, about 330 dynojet whp. It don't matter the drivetrain losses from both cars, what it matters is the power at the wheels.
Third, you keep missing the fact that this guy (huge guy btw) was using super sticky 265 DRs which make a huuuge difference at the track, and this has been debated to death at the e90 forums. Heck, I used skinny 205's snow tires when I run 12 flat, can you imagine if I had fat DRs on my car?
Fourth, and about bringing fairness to the game, there has been more than "ten" 335s running at the track. My point is, you cannot use the numbers pulled by the best 335 on the planet (as we speak) and applied them as a standard for 335s with a Procede kit. "Hey, get a Procede and you will be in the mid 12's!": wrong. Times will definitely improve at the track, until then, a luxury car like the 335 cannot compare to a modified Evo track wise. I'm talking raw track numbers here. That's all we Evo owners have left against such a terrific car like the 335. I said it before and I'll say it again: I'd rather have a 335 parked on my garage instead of a Evo. I'm already 38 y/o and I'm already sick of the Evo's rawness, lack of features and pathetic gas mileage. But deep in my heart, I still love it. It's a thin line.......
Saludos!
Sergio
Jun 9, 2007, 10:50 AM
#45
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