Celica GT-S or tC?
Jun 22, 2007, 07:36 AM
#16
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yeah the current SI will cream the lot when it comes to fun factor.... light weight, free reving, front LSD, super stiff chassis, and honda reliability. come on its a no-brainer!!!!
Jun 23, 2007, 07:57 PM
#17
I wanted a 4 door winter beater so I ended up with a Corolla XRS. It has tuned firmer suspension and Celica GTS powertrain. But if your budget is higher you can try to find a nice Type R or something..
Jun 23, 2007, 08:08 PM
#18
You cant really compare the two. The GTS is a high reving engine compared to the 2.4 that the TC has. The GTS is anemic when it comes to torque which the 2.4 has plenty of but it's downfall is that the TC is a much heavier car than the Celica GTS. The GTS is a 6 speed but you have to have the car reved up to be in the power zone. The TC makes for a better daily driver. Although I had test drove both the TC and the Corolla XRS and I actualy liked how they felt. But one thing to remember is the Corolla XRS although it has the same drivetrain it is tuned diferently. Toyota lowered the hp and gain tq for the corolla.
Jun 24, 2007, 05:33 AM
#20
Something to consider the GTS engine requires premium fuel. The plugs seems to go before 30K miles even if they ar iridum because of the higher compression ratio. It only take 15mins so if you get a gts change your spark plugs
.
Jun 27, 2007, 08:22 AM
#25
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I suppose it depends on what you are after.
If you want to go FI at some point don't get the GTS. You will have to drop the compression on the motor to have any sort of success with a turbo GTS. (Although there are super charger kits available for the GTS)
The TC as many have said has quite a few turbo options.
If however you want to stay NA then the GTS might be a nice option.
I had a GTS before I got the evo and had a lot of fun with it.
Handling is very good and a simple exhaust and intake really get the engine breathing nicely.
The GTS does haul nicely for an NA car. Once it hits lift (at about 6500 rpm) it pulls hard all the way to redline.
I only owned the car for about a year so cannot comment on reliability, but it is a fun car to drive and interior had a very snug feel to it too.
My .2c
If you want to go FI at some point don't get the GTS. You will have to drop the compression on the motor to have any sort of success with a turbo GTS. (Although there are super charger kits available for the GTS)
The TC as many have said has quite a few turbo options.
If however you want to stay NA then the GTS might be a nice option.
I had a GTS before I got the evo and had a lot of fun with it.
Handling is very good and a simple exhaust and intake really get the engine breathing nicely.
The GTS does haul nicely for an NA car. Once it hits lift (at about 6500 rpm) it pulls hard all the way to redline.
I only owned the car for about a year so cannot comment on reliability, but it is a fun car to drive and interior had a very snug feel to it too.
My .2c
Jun 27, 2007, 05:55 PM
#26
I owned a 2000 Celica GT-S for 7 years, bought it new, before I bought the Evo. I did quite a bit of work on the Celica as well, and was quite into the Celica scene. So I'll clarify some things.
1) Why 2000 vs later model years? Well, the first 2 years of the new model Celica (2000 AND 2001) the GTS 6 speed trany had very closely spaced gearbox. This, coupled with the fact that it was one of the first high revving imports coming to the US along with bad drivers resulted in a lot of cracked blocks not from valve issues, but from Driver mis-shifting. However, these first 2 year model cars DID have synchro issues, most common in 4th gear. In 2002 my 4th gear synchro went out and they replaced the tranny under warranty with a 2002 model with the wider spaced gates to my displeasure =/
2) Someone indicated that Lift is at 6500 rpm. This is incorrect. It is at 6200 rpm, and redline, though listed at 7000, is 7350ish rpm. Toyota was VERY secretive of their engine management which made making power while remaining NA was very difficult, because by the time I started distancing myself from the tuning scene of the Celi's (04-05) no one had yet cracked it to be able to lower VVTL-i cam change point. Since then, Lotus has used the same 2ZZGE motor in the Elise and Exige and had much more success, and they were allowed ECU access to lower the cam switch RPM. I am unaware if that process is common knowledge now in the celica world. Remember- Lotus DID pick this motor to make their super Elise/Exiges for a reason.
3) Handling- The Celica was an excellent FWD handling car stock (second in class to ITR/RSX type-s). It did lack an LSD. With one, could keep up with the RSX type-s quite easily. With minor suspension mods, it was an absolute beast on autox/tracks as far as handling went. Hotchkiss used a Celica as their tuning and develepment testbed for years, and the Hotchkiss Celi pulled in the neighborhood of 1.2g skidpad and ran a 73-74 mph slalom (from what I can recall). It was one of the best handling cars one could get for below 30k for years in the US.
4) Power- Making power was, as has been stated, is difficult in a GT-S without extensive internal work to lower compression (11.5:1) stock. If you do plan on turbo or SC application, you would probably be better off with a GT, however you do lose the rear disc brakes with a GT. You CAN get parts to lower compression in a GTS (Lotus has a supercharged version of the 2ZZGE motor out), but because of it's more limited production, and difficulty of tune, the parts are not as readily available as say, a honda or Evo.
5) Spark plugs- had 58k miles on the car when it was sold. It had seem some 1/4 mile track time, and quite heavy footed use on the streets. Never had the plugs foul. Neither did most of my friends who had celica's after many AutoX.
Overall, if you are looking for speed, neither is probably your answer. The Celica and TC can be quick, but quick and fast aren't quite the same thing. The Celica should outhandle a TC any day of the week. The TC can let you comfortably transport people in the back seats. Unless the people you are transporting in the back of a Celica are shorter than 3 feet tall, forget about it. I think the Celi can look better with kit/etc.. and can hold a more aggressive and sporty look overall, but that's all subjective. Reliability- It's a toyota. One friend (also a 2000 GTS) still has his that he's autocrossed for 7+ years, with 110k + miles on it on it's original motor and tranny, just 1 clutch replacement. He also has an Evo 9 for his DD now, over the Celica which used to be a DD/Autox/Track car.
Hope that helps. If you are looking for used, I think it would be hard to go wrong with either one. But do consider the similar RSX-type s or even an SRT4 if within your budget. They all could use an LSD though.
1) Why 2000 vs later model years? Well, the first 2 years of the new model Celica (2000 AND 2001) the GTS 6 speed trany had very closely spaced gearbox. This, coupled with the fact that it was one of the first high revving imports coming to the US along with bad drivers resulted in a lot of cracked blocks not from valve issues, but from Driver mis-shifting. However, these first 2 year model cars DID have synchro issues, most common in 4th gear. In 2002 my 4th gear synchro went out and they replaced the tranny under warranty with a 2002 model with the wider spaced gates to my displeasure =/
2) Someone indicated that Lift is at 6500 rpm. This is incorrect. It is at 6200 rpm, and redline, though listed at 7000, is 7350ish rpm. Toyota was VERY secretive of their engine management which made making power while remaining NA was very difficult, because by the time I started distancing myself from the tuning scene of the Celi's (04-05) no one had yet cracked it to be able to lower VVTL-i cam change point. Since then, Lotus has used the same 2ZZGE motor in the Elise and Exige and had much more success, and they were allowed ECU access to lower the cam switch RPM. I am unaware if that process is common knowledge now in the celica world. Remember- Lotus DID pick this motor to make their super Elise/Exiges for a reason.
3) Handling- The Celica was an excellent FWD handling car stock (second in class to ITR/RSX type-s). It did lack an LSD. With one, could keep up with the RSX type-s quite easily. With minor suspension mods, it was an absolute beast on autox/tracks as far as handling went. Hotchkiss used a Celica as their tuning and develepment testbed for years, and the Hotchkiss Celi pulled in the neighborhood of 1.2g skidpad and ran a 73-74 mph slalom (from what I can recall). It was one of the best handling cars one could get for below 30k for years in the US.
4) Power- Making power was, as has been stated, is difficult in a GT-S without extensive internal work to lower compression (11.5:1) stock. If you do plan on turbo or SC application, you would probably be better off with a GT, however you do lose the rear disc brakes with a GT. You CAN get parts to lower compression in a GTS (Lotus has a supercharged version of the 2ZZGE motor out), but because of it's more limited production, and difficulty of tune, the parts are not as readily available as say, a honda or Evo.
5) Spark plugs- had 58k miles on the car when it was sold. It had seem some 1/4 mile track time, and quite heavy footed use on the streets. Never had the plugs foul. Neither did most of my friends who had celica's after many AutoX.
Overall, if you are looking for speed, neither is probably your answer. The Celica and TC can be quick, but quick and fast aren't quite the same thing. The Celica should outhandle a TC any day of the week. The TC can let you comfortably transport people in the back seats. Unless the people you are transporting in the back of a Celica are shorter than 3 feet tall, forget about it. I think the Celi can look better with kit/etc.. and can hold a more aggressive and sporty look overall, but that's all subjective. Reliability- It's a toyota. One friend (also a 2000 GTS) still has his that he's autocrossed for 7+ years, with 110k + miles on it on it's original motor and tranny, just 1 clutch replacement. He also has an Evo 9 for his DD now, over the Celica which used to be a DD/Autox/Track car.
Hope that helps. If you are looking for used, I think it would be hard to go wrong with either one. But do consider the similar RSX-type s or even an SRT4 if within your budget. They all could use an LSD though.
Jun 28, 2007, 02:43 PM
#27
The GT-S is a more sporty and fun to drive car . The TC drive more like a camry. Just do not get an auto GT-S that is the slowest celica made slower than 16sec+ car. I got my 2000 GT-S new and still have it. It's not fast but its a quick car, when driven right. With just CAI and unbolted muffler and weight saving I ran a 14.47@99.2mph with a horrible 2.36 60ft. I have 170k+ on it but it been though alot, I did misshift early in its life and had my drivetrain replaced under warrenty. I still love the car. The TC is newer and looks good for a sub 20k car, the new car it the more resonable choice.
Last edited by nudge120; Jun 28, 2007 at 02:45 PM.
