Evo X vs. Evo VIII and IX
Dec 13, 2008, 03:42 PM
#1696
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nobody said any one can shift faster then a SSt....
I said it doesn't give that much advantage as they claim. And i stand by that.
statement .
The biggest proof is the 1/4 mile time where basically you shift all the gears on the GSR and still win a good amount of time and speed over the MR.
/higher trap speed also/And even if you watch after the 60 mph time the MR still dont gain anything on the GSR./1/4 mile/ So where is the advantage on road track? The GSR have better L-G's also...
and suffer only 1 feet of breaking distance, Also the GSR is lighter.
If you know anything about racing , you would question the road track times also.
Of course, its a whole different issue with the SST overheating etc, but as the previous poster said, its nothing that can't be fixed.
Dec 13, 2008, 04:19 PM
#1697
Hey, I thought the 1/4 times were affected due to the difference in gear ratios between the SST and the manual. I am pretty sure that if the gear ratios were the same, the MR would definitely help a non-pro driver score better times than a manual transmission.
Of course, its a whole different issue with the SST overheating etc, but as the previous poster said, its nothing that can't be fixed.
Of course, its a whole different issue with the SST overheating etc, but as the previous poster said, its nothing that can't be fixed.
Also the trap speed is slower.
The SSt defenietly helps for inexperienced driver. No need to be a pro as always you guys claiming.
No pro driver drives the MR either usually.
I think equal driver should run an equal time , since the SSt- breaks/very little advantage here/ helps for the MR, but the weight and the l-Grip + power for the GSR.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Dec 13, 2008 at 04:26 PM.
Dec 13, 2008, 09:27 PM
#1698
being an MR owner, IMO i don't think the MR's shift advantage is portrayed correctly in the 1/4 mile, infact i think this area of the argument needs to be stopped. obviously, the evo is not built to be a drag car anyway... i think the big advantage of the MR, as many have said already, is in prolonged road races. as much as people don't like to admit it... almost nobody on this thread is a pro driver. that said... almost nobody on this thread can shift faster than the SST. even if the SST only betters a manual shift by .01 seconds a lap.(which it clearly does more) than after 100 laps it makes up a full second. and as far as the big weight dif. between the two models most of it is made up of the comfort goodies of the MR, as a platform, the MR or SST is the future... or... EVOLUTION of the racing world. people forget that the "super cars" that we as EVO owners are running down, have been doing this for years. hell, my cayanne turbo has a tiptronic system. and it is a freakin 05 suv. whether people want to except it or not... it is faster. and down the road when all the bugs are worked out of the SST i don't think anyone will an argument left for a manual tranns. 
Aside from that, it is a fact that the TC SST loses more power through parasitic loss than a conventional dry clutch manual because the wet clutches have more rotating resistance. This has been proven on the dyno, with MRs averaging about 10whp+ less than GSRs. Add in the fact that overheating is an issue when the car is driven hard even in stock form, and the fact that the TC SST has been shown to be capped at about 400 hp/tq at the crank before clutch slippage and ecu intervention occurs.
Hell, even with a larger transmission case and heavier duty clutches, the tranny in the nissan GTR has had reported cases of blowing up from even a couple of launches at completely stock power levels, which is why nissan has put a clause into the warranty that states that if the car is launched even once, the warranty is void. The ecu even has a memory feature that records any time the launch control has been used so that the dealer can tell. In any case, while I agree that these trannies are impressive in their shift timing and perfect rev matched downshifts, they do have their drawbacks despite what you seem to think.
With the tranny not being serviceable (mitsu even states in the service manual that if there is an issue with the TCSST that the entire unit has to be replaced because it is a sealed unit), disassembly and attempted modification to install stronger clutch packs is not only risky but from the looks of it, very difficult. Dr EVO, as they call him in Japan ( the man responsible for the design of EVERY EVO since it's inception), stated in an interview that the MR is for the guy that has been on the fence about buying an EVO and wanted the performance without the hassles of a manual transmission.
The MR is to offer a technologically advanced alternative to an automatic, and in a more comfortable package with softer suspension and more amenities. It is not, however, intended to be modified and insisted that anyone wanting to modify their evo should go for the GSR. He said that the GSR offers a more traditional EVO that is equiped with a true manual for the purists, and is more suitable for race teams as a platform for modifications and high power levels. This came straight from the guy who designed the car, and the results from working with the two models over the past year have confirmed this to be true by every major tuner.
The MR is a great car, but it is intended for a different crowd and at the end of the day, is a watered down version of the GSR with an emphasis put more on broadening market appeal than outright performance and tunability. You bough a great car, no doubt, and please don't think that I'm knocking it. But, if you bought the MR because you thought it was the superior machine to the GSR and had plans for modification, you bought the wrong car. Sorry man, no hard feelings... just giving you the facts.
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Dec 13, 2008 at 09:34 PM. Reason: reworded and fixed typos
Dec 14, 2008, 03:09 PM
#1699
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being an MR owner, IMO i don't think the MR's shift advantage is portrayed correctly in the 1/4 mile, infact i think this area of the argument needs to be stopped. obviously, the evo is not built to be a drag car anyway... i think the big advantage of the MR, as many have said already, is in prolonged road races. as much as people don't like to admit it... almost nobody on this thread is a pro driver. that said... almost nobody on this thread can shift faster than the SST. even if the SST only betters a manual shift by .01 seconds a lap.(which it clearly does more) than after 100 laps it makes up a full second. and as far as the big weight dif. between the two models most of it is made up of the comfort goodies of the MR, as a platform, the MR or SST is the future... or... EVOLUTION of the racing world. people forget that the "super cars" that we as EVO owners are running down, have been doing this for years. hell, my cayanne turbo has a tiptronic system. and it is a freakin 05 suv. whether people want to except it or not... it is faster. and down the road when all the bugs are worked out of the SST i don't think anyone will an argument left for a manual tranns.
Dec 14, 2008, 08:08 PM
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Dec 16, 2008, 08:26 AM
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I wouldn't mind manual being removed if they can replace it with straight cut gear mechanical sequentials 
It would be superior to manual and auto paddle flaps in every way except 'streetability'.
It would be superior to manual and auto paddle flaps in every way except 'streetability'.
Dec 18, 2008, 08:36 PM
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Dec 18, 2008, 10:23 PM
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Dec 20, 2008, 05:07 AM
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Dec 21, 2008, 08:50 PM
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Dual clutch auto manuals are definitely beating out manuals in popularity among the masses, but not the purists, which is why mitsu and porsche and many others still offer manuals in their high performance models and in some cases like the GT3, GT3 RS, and the GT2, a manual is the ONLY option, despite the availability of the auto manual in lesser models. As far as your comment about weight is concerned, the main reason for the weight gain is not the interior appointments, it's the tranny.
The MR is a great car, but it is intended for a different crowd and at the end of the day, is a watered down version of the GSR with an emphasis put more on broadening market appeal than outright performance and tunability. You bough a great car, no doubt, and please don't think that I'm knocking it. But, if you bought the MR because you thought it was the superior machine to the GSR and had plans for modification, you bought the wrong car. Sorry man, no hard feelings... just giving you the facts.
The MR is a great car, but it is intended for a different crowd and at the end of the day, is a watered down version of the GSR with an emphasis put more on broadening market appeal than outright performance and tunability. You bough a great car, no doubt, and please don't think that I'm knocking it. But, if you bought the MR because you thought it was the superior machine to the GSR and had plans for modification, you bought the wrong car. Sorry man, no hard feelings... just giving you the facts.
curb weight GSR: 3585 lbs.
curb weight MR: 3658 lbs.
the MR has better wheels, brakes, shocks, and springs than the GSR. yet, you argue that the MR cannot overcome 73 lbs. with above mods?
I respect your opinion, but the MR is the superior machine in MY opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK4pL4TyFG0
i agree that the MR may not be a better platform to mod but as far as performance, drivability, technology, and a sparkly MR badge (obviously makes it cooler) as a whole. it is the better car. Not to mention that this is the first SST to come on such a platform, though it may be having some growing pains, imagine what these trannys will be doing once they have time to grow up.
Post Script: who said DR. EVO knows anything about these things anyway?