Evo X vs. Evo VIII and IX
Jan 7, 2009, 12:13 PM
#1817
I just watched the video again, here are some comments on the handling:
0:32 - Oops, lost balance a bit (IX driver)
0:38 - At turn, there is barely any difference (IX driver)
0:43 - IX is around 100kg (220lbs) lighter, they're using the same tires (commentator)
0:52 - I think the X is faster at turns (X driver)
1:24 - Here comes a high speed turn (IX driver)
1:29 - I'm faster... at high speed turns (IX driver)
2:11 - From beginning of braking to turn in, the X is much more stable (IX driver)
2:45 - Here is where its fast! The evo X (IX driver)
3:11 - According to the data, during the low to mid speed turns, the X is doing over 5km/h (3mph) faster (commentator)
3:31 - I messed up my turn entry line.. but the traction is good (IX driver) * I may need some translation help here*
4:14 - From here... (IX driver)
4:20 - let me try pushing it (IX driver)
As long as chassis, engine, drivetrain remains the same, more mod is going to favor the IX. For being longer, wider, taller, stronger and heavier, the CZ4A chassis is a big penalty over CT9A, the stability gained from it does not over come the weight and aerodynamics deficiency in a majority of racing instances. If all three of above are allowed to be changed, anything can happen.
I still cannot find a more comprehensive stock Evo vs Evo (actually WRX STI) results than the Autoblog one:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/05/e...ba-lap-times/3
2007 - X
2006 - IX MR (9.5)
2005 - IX
2003 - VIII
2001 - VII
1998 - VI
1996 - IV
1994 - II
1992 - I
They're missing 1995 III, 2000 VI TME (6.5) and 2004 VIII MR (8.5).
I have to agree that on stock class type races the X is untouchable, because a lot of parts that would've tallied up points on an IX is good enough not to be replaced on an X, not to mention the allowed performance mods net bigger power on an X (intake, catback etc).
I don't think the fundamental of this thread is about finding out whether CZ4A is or will be faster than CT9A/CP9A, stock, modded, or race built, but more of a:
# Purist's view - Why waste weight on comfort and safety, use the technology the reduce the weight instead and the car would be undisputedly faster and more fun. (probably not viable interms of company profitability)
# Enthusiast's view - All that extra stuff is ok, but why not add some power? Especially now that Japanese companies no longer follow the 280ps 'rule'. (barely any cost to them to add another 40-50hp, but liability may cost them in long run)
0:32 - Oops, lost balance a bit (IX driver)
0:38 - At turn, there is barely any difference (IX driver)
0:43 - IX is around 100kg (220lbs) lighter, they're using the same tires (commentator)
0:52 - I think the X is faster at turns (X driver)
1:24 - Here comes a high speed turn (IX driver)
1:29 - I'm faster... at high speed turns (IX driver)
2:11 - From beginning of braking to turn in, the X is much more stable (IX driver)
2:45 - Here is where its fast! The evo X (IX driver)
3:11 - According to the data, during the low to mid speed turns, the X is doing over 5km/h (3mph) faster (commentator)
3:31 - I messed up my turn entry line.. but the traction is good (IX driver) * I may need some translation help here*
4:14 - From here... (IX driver)
4:20 - let me try pushing it (IX driver)
As long as chassis, engine, drivetrain remains the same, more mod is going to favor the IX. For being longer, wider, taller, stronger and heavier, the CZ4A chassis is a big penalty over CT9A, the stability gained from it does not over come the weight and aerodynamics deficiency in a majority of racing instances. If all three of above are allowed to be changed, anything can happen.
I still cannot find a more comprehensive stock Evo vs Evo (actually WRX STI) results than the Autoblog one:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/05/e...ba-lap-times/3
2007 - X
2006 - IX MR (9.5)
2005 - IX
2003 - VIII
2001 - VII
1998 - VI
1996 - IV
1994 - II
1992 - I
They're missing 1995 III, 2000 VI TME (6.5) and 2004 VIII MR (8.5).
I have to agree that on stock class type races the X is untouchable, because a lot of parts that would've tallied up points on an IX is good enough not to be replaced on an X, not to mention the allowed performance mods net bigger power on an X (intake, catback etc).
I don't think the fundamental of this thread is about finding out whether CZ4A is or will be faster than CT9A/CP9A, stock, modded, or race built, but more of a:
# Purist's view - Why waste weight on comfort and safety, use the technology the reduce the weight instead and the car would be undisputedly faster and more fun. (probably not viable interms of company profitability)
# Enthusiast's view - All that extra stuff is ok, but why not add some power? Especially now that Japanese companies no longer follow the 280ps 'rule'. (barely any cost to them to add another 40-50hp, but liability may cost them in long run)
@ .5 on a basically stock X
Jan 10, 2009, 06:45 PM
#1820
The link to his mods is in his sig:
Current Specs
Horsepower: 460whp
Torque: 430wtq.
Weight: 3,300lbs w/ driver
Mods
Engine: AMS shifter bushings, AMS Motor mount, AMS Upper Intercooler pipe, AMS Intake, AMS Intercooler, AMS Tune, Forced Performance FP Red, Cusco 1.5 way Rear LSD, AMS Fuel Surge Tank kit
Suspension: JRZ Race dampers, 27mm Rear swaybar, Whiteline Roll Center kit
Brakes: Girodisc F/R Prototype rotors, Girodisc Rear pad adaptors, Raybestos ST-43 pads, AMS S/S Brake lines, Custom 3" brake duct kit, Castrol SRF.
Wheel/Tire: Volk CE28N 18x10.5 w/ 275/35 Nitto NT01 (TT-A & Limited/Mod).
Basically stock, is that right? Nice!
Current Specs
Horsepower: 460whp
Torque: 430wtq.
Weight: 3,300lbs w/ driver
Mods
Engine: AMS shifter bushings, AMS Motor mount, AMS Upper Intercooler pipe, AMS Intake, AMS Intercooler, AMS Tune, Forced Performance FP Red, Cusco 1.5 way Rear LSD, AMS Fuel Surge Tank kit
Suspension: JRZ Race dampers, 27mm Rear swaybar, Whiteline Roll Center kit
Brakes: Girodisc F/R Prototype rotors, Girodisc Rear pad adaptors, Raybestos ST-43 pads, AMS S/S Brake lines, Custom 3" brake duct kit, Castrol SRF.
Wheel/Tire: Volk CE28N 18x10.5 w/ 275/35 Nitto NT01 (TT-A & Limited/Mod).
Basically stock, is that right? Nice!
Jan 10, 2009, 08:32 PM
#1821
The link to his mods is in his sig:
Current Specs
Horsepower: 460whp
Torque: 430wtq.
Weight: 3,300lbs w/ driver
Mods
Engine: AMS shifter bushings, AMS Motor mount, AMS Upper Intercooler pipe, AMS Intake, AMS Intercooler, AMS Tune, Forced Performance FP Red, Cusco 1.5 way Rear LSD, AMS Fuel Surge Tank kit
Suspension: JRZ Race dampers, 27mm Rear swaybar, Whiteline Roll Center kit
Brakes: Girodisc F/R Prototype rotors, Girodisc Rear pad adaptors, Raybestos ST-43 pads, AMS S/S Brake lines, Custom 3" brake duct kit, Castrol SRF.
Wheel/Tire: Volk CE28N 18x10.5 w/ 275/35 Nitto NT01 (TT-A & Limited/Mod).
Basically stock, is that right? Nice!
Current Specs
Horsepower: 460whp
Torque: 430wtq.
Weight: 3,300lbs w/ driver
Mods
Engine: AMS shifter bushings, AMS Motor mount, AMS Upper Intercooler pipe, AMS Intake, AMS Intercooler, AMS Tune, Forced Performance FP Red, Cusco 1.5 way Rear LSD, AMS Fuel Surge Tank kit
Suspension: JRZ Race dampers, 27mm Rear swaybar, Whiteline Roll Center kit
Brakes: Girodisc F/R Prototype rotors, Girodisc Rear pad adaptors, Raybestos ST-43 pads, AMS S/S Brake lines, Custom 3" brake duct kit, Castrol SRF.
Wheel/Tire: Volk CE28N 18x10.5 w/ 275/35 Nitto NT01 (TT-A & Limited/Mod).
Basically stock, is that right? Nice!
Uh, no. That's where his current build is at right now. In that race, however, all he had were a few bolt ons.
^^^ Good point. Look at the TTA class at the NASA Championships this year.....an Evo X was 3 seconds faster than a IX in the same class.....it also won the National Championship and set the track record. Hmmm weird.
I did lose to Nils (Evo VIII RS) at Super Lap in November, yes. But, he has Voltex aero, built 2.2L, gutted interior, brand new KW Race shocks and infinite laps at Buttonwillow and 3 years of testing and setup on that car....I was learning the track on a 100% stock longblock, 4 bolt-ons, full interior, and blown front shocks with stripped camber plates.
Wait til next season to see how a well prepped Evo X does
P.S. I lost to Nils by .05
1:56.67 - 1:56.72
Ohh well.
I did lose to Nils (Evo VIII RS) at Super Lap in November, yes. But, he has Voltex aero, built 2.2L, gutted interior, brand new KW Race shocks and infinite laps at Buttonwillow and 3 years of testing and setup on that car....I was learning the track on a 100% stock longblock, 4 bolt-ons, full interior, and blown front shocks with stripped camber plates.
Wait til next season to see how a well prepped Evo X does
P.S. I lost to Nils by .05
1:56.67 - 1:56.72
Ohh well.
Nice attempt to discredit the X though. You should start giving the X more respect man. All you haters think because it's a little heavier that it can't beat a 9, but what you don't realize or want to acknowledge is that the chassis, suspension geometry, and AWD system are far better and that does count for something.
You people talk bad about the engine because the block is aluminum, but aluminum is still very strong if built right (which the 4b11 is), and there are many great improvements like a cylinder head that craps on a 4g63's, mivec on both cams, separate cooling passages for the head and the block, etc. There will come a day when all you guys are just gonna have to get over it and accept the facts.
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Jan 10, 2009 at 09:13 PM.
Jan 11, 2009, 12:19 AM
#1823
Evolved Member
To me despite the weight the x has seem to be really holding its own on the drag strip with just a few bolt ons such as a intake and exhaust. right now there are plenty of videos where the x is beating the nine on the drag strip with each car having similar bolt ons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7HQLUgIpOE here is an rs vs the x. From the video it seems that the two cars are equal as far as mods go. With all the facts already on display from various sources and the potential of the x still being explored. I dont see how this thread is still relevant when the car hasn't been out for a year yet.Unitl the full potential of the 4b11 has been discovered and the limitations established comparing as far as saying which car is better doesnt make any sense to me. my .02
Jan 11, 2009, 08:28 AM
#1824
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To me despite the weight the x has seem to be really holding its own on the drag strip with just a few bolt ons such as a intake and exhaust. right now there are plenty of videos where the x is beating the nine on the drag strip with each car having similar bolt ons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7HQLUgIpOE here is an rs vs the x. From the video it seems that the two cars are equal as far as mods go. With all the facts already on display from various sources and the potential of the x still being explored. I dont see how this thread is still relevant when the car hasn't been out for a year yet.Unitl the full potential of the 4b11 has been discovered and the limitations established comparing as far as saying which car is better doesnt make any sense to me. my .02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqONg...eature=related
Last edited by billyblonco; Jan 11, 2009 at 08:40 AM.
Jan 11, 2009, 09:23 AM
#1825
While there's no question that the 9 is a better platform for drag racing because of the weight advantage, these videos are all meaningless because we have no idea what the mods are. These aren't class races with regulation and the cars aren't competing against one another. This is just a free for all at the strip where anyone with any car can run. You could literally have a 1000 whp supra next to a stock civic, and I've seen that too. I swear, the average intelligence level on forums is astounding.
Jan 11, 2009, 11:43 AM
#1826
Evolved Member
I'm not saying that the x is a better drag racer car than the nine. People are acting as if you need a new turbo in order to beat a stock nine on the track. All im saying is that the evo deserves more credit especially with the impressive numbers that people have been getting from the 4b11 in this short period of time. Im not a mechanic or engineer, my opinions are based on threads, magazines and videos. Despite the weight the car seems to be doing well on the drag strip. I think people should give the car more time and credit before they start bashing the car. Also, i didn't think that anything i said in the previous post was unintelligent or ignorant as it was just my thoughts.
I never intended to prove that the x was better than the nine off one youtube video.The cars looked to be equal to me off the video due to the race being so close.I'am not here to argue with anyone,but learn more my about this amazing vehicle. All evos are cool enjoy your car fellas. I'am out
I never intended to prove that the x was better than the nine off one youtube video.The cars looked to be equal to me off the video due to the race being so close.I'am not here to argue with anyone,but learn more my about this amazing vehicle. All evos are cool enjoy your car fellas. I'am out
Last edited by jayevo23; Jan 11, 2009 at 11:53 AM.
Jan 11, 2009, 06:05 PM
#1827
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Drag racing or road racing, it is going to follow the same trend as previous chassis changes, from III to IV was just as much change from IX to X at 220lbs. But by V, not a lot of people argued that CP9A is inferior to CE9A. Same for VI to VII, about 135lbs but by VIII not a lot of people argued that CT9A is inferior to CP9A. IV and V makes about same power, weighs almost the same, and only difference is minor aerodynamic and cooling update. Same for VII compared to VIII, literally the same car.
The upcoming models such as the XI and XII would be interesting though.
-Nissan and Subaru has shown that they are no longer following the '280PS gentlemen's agreement' with their STI, Fairlady Z (350/370Z) and the GT-R. Mitsubishi just updated their power rating to 300PS when they gave the facelift to the X (with the different tail light etc).
- The economy is bad and Mitsubishi Motors just cut 2000 temp workers. X's sale isn't doing so well worldwide. They would have to update the car significantly or drop the car completely. So far no evolution lasted over 2 model years, and the next generation was usually unveiled at autoshows when the current generation begins production, but not a single word on the XI yet
- Most likely there will not be an X MR (10.5, not the USDM trim level), as MR and TME's signature was titanium turbo wheel and suspension, but JDM X already comes with ti turbo as standard, and Bilstein/Eibach is available as standard on GSR premium, and option on standard GSR. Also a facelift has already been done on MY09 and there has never been a facelift on an evolution before
- Fuel economy wave is still strong in the automotive market, but for performance car, power rating figure still dominates, it would heavily pressure Mitsubishi to reduce weight on the evolution if they plan to keep the car
The upcoming models such as the XI and XII would be interesting though.
-Nissan and Subaru has shown that they are no longer following the '280PS gentlemen's agreement' with their STI, Fairlady Z (350/370Z) and the GT-R. Mitsubishi just updated their power rating to 300PS when they gave the facelift to the X (with the different tail light etc).
- The economy is bad and Mitsubishi Motors just cut 2000 temp workers. X's sale isn't doing so well worldwide. They would have to update the car significantly or drop the car completely. So far no evolution lasted over 2 model years, and the next generation was usually unveiled at autoshows when the current generation begins production, but not a single word on the XI yet
- Most likely there will not be an X MR (10.5, not the USDM trim level), as MR and TME's signature was titanium turbo wheel and suspension, but JDM X already comes with ti turbo as standard, and Bilstein/Eibach is available as standard on GSR premium, and option on standard GSR. Also a facelift has already been done on MY09 and there has never been a facelift on an evolution before
- Fuel economy wave is still strong in the automotive market, but for performance car, power rating figure still dominates, it would heavily pressure Mitsubishi to reduce weight on the evolution if they plan to keep the car
Jan 12, 2009, 03:11 PM
#1828
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I'm not saying that the x is a better drag racer car than the nine. People are acting as if you need a new turbo in order to beat a stock nine on the track. All im saying is that the evo deserves more credit especially with the impressive numbers that people have been getting from the 4b11 in this short period of time. Im not a mechanic or engineer, my opinions are based on threads, magazines and videos. Despite the weight the car seems to be doing well on the drag strip. I think people should give the car more time and credit before they start bashing the car. Also, i didn't think that anything i said in the previous post was unintelligent or ignorant as it was just my thoughts.I never intended to prove that the x was better than the nine off one youtube video.The cars looked to be equal to me off the video due to the race being so close.I'am not here to argue with anyone,but learn more my about this amazing vehicle. All evos are cool enjoy your car fellas. I'am out
I never intended to prove that the x was better than the nine off one youtube video.The cars looked to be equal to me off the video due to the race being so close.I'am not here to argue with anyone,but learn more my about this amazing vehicle. All evos are cool enjoy your car fellas. I'am out
Jan 20, 2009, 01:02 AM
#1829
Any car that pulls a 0-60 in less than 5 seconds is silly quick. A stock Evo is arguably one of the most competent point A to point B cars ever made by man.
[RANT] I have to confess to enjoying the MPG threads. Watching dozens upon dozens of guys with thousands of dollars in power mods brag about shifting below 3K is hilarious, knowing the car's powerband. Hell, I've run around a moddded VIII in my beige Kia Sedona minivan. The point being, no amount of mods can fix the nut behind the wheel, but it must be nice to brag about the car's power while sitting in a Walmart parking lot.[/RANT]
Try taking one on the road. The car's issues are factory-driven. Needing to mod, just to gain better driveability, and risking voiding the factory warranty in the process isn't something to be happy about.
[RANT] I have to confess to enjoying the MPG threads. Watching dozens upon dozens of guys with thousands of dollars in power mods brag about shifting below 3K is hilarious, knowing the car's powerband. Hell, I've run around a moddded VIII in my beige Kia Sedona minivan. The point being, no amount of mods can fix the nut behind the wheel, but it must be nice to brag about the car's power while sitting in a Walmart parking lot.[/RANT]
Try taking one on the road. The car's issues are factory-driven. Needing to mod, just to gain better driveability, and risking voiding the factory warranty in the process isn't something to be happy about.
modded, the evo 10 is in a different class than the 9 is modded.
ive owned 2 9's and ive only sat in 1 evo 10 and i can honestly say this.
and i couldnt care less about the warranty. i had my evo 9 mr se sitting at 340whp with only 1600 miles on the car. The evo, if taken care of and driven right is dead nuts reliable. Warranty is rarely an issue.
but for the common tool bag who drives the car to the ground, leaves it stock, uses it for all his everyday crap, lugs the kids around, doesnt treat the car as such and doesnt know 2 ****s about how to drive the car...then yeah, the warranty is good for you, because you suck at life.
Jan 20, 2009, 01:40 AM
#1830
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Well if you are one of THOSE people who want to leave it stock and keep the precious mitsu warranty...lol, then so be it...
modded, the evo 10 is in a different class than the 9 is modded.
ive owned 2 9's and ive only sat in 1 evo 10 and i can honestly say this.
and i couldnt care less about the warranty. i had my evo 9 mr se sitting at 340whp with only 1600 miles on the car. The evo, if taken care of and driven right is dead nuts reliable. Warranty is rarely an issue.
but for the common tool bag who drives the car to the ground, leaves it stock, uses it for all his everyday crap, lugs the kids around, doesnt treat the car as such and doesnt know 2 ****s about how to drive the car...then yeah, the warranty is good for you, because you suck at life.
modded, the evo 10 is in a different class than the 9 is modded.
ive owned 2 9's and ive only sat in 1 evo 10 and i can honestly say this.
and i couldnt care less about the warranty. i had my evo 9 mr se sitting at 340whp with only 1600 miles on the car. The evo, if taken care of and driven right is dead nuts reliable. Warranty is rarely an issue.
but for the common tool bag who drives the car to the ground, leaves it stock, uses it for all his everyday crap, lugs the kids around, doesnt treat the car as such and doesnt know 2 ****s about how to drive the car...then yeah, the warranty is good for you, because you suck at life.
Last edited by nawaz; Jan 20, 2009 at 01:43 AM.