Evo X vs. Evo VIII and IX
Dec 7, 2009, 02:55 PM
#2266
Picture this case - If the STI were unquestionably faster than the Evo (which, it only lags behind the Evo less than a second on any given track, and opposite in Japan) would most of us here have bought the STI over the Evo? I don't think so - I wouldn't anyway. The Evo is way more neutral in behavior, steers better, overall the car feels better to drive hard, compared to the STI..
I think this is a great example of how people differ. I had a WRX, and have driven STIs a lot. I didn't pass on Subarus based of the feel and driving character at all. I passed on them based on the fact I thought they were compromised mechanically in comparison to Evos. I don't like the cost of upgradability, I don't like the technology used.
Dec 7, 2009, 03:02 PM
#2267
Very wrong sorry.
"No one's crying about anything Rob. The untrue part was your statement that it's a car made strictly for race/rally. Mitsu pulled out of the WRC, the X is a consumer car that consumers may or may not use to pursue their motorsport interests. The X is not a race car - it can be made into one, but it isn't one."
The Evolution is made for race. Every part is comply with the FIA regulations , which is very strict. SO when you tell me i said untrue thing ... Well you being very untrue here and for a purpose.
Here is the homologation document for you to see how detailed is. Also how much you have to pay attention to be in the rules . The Evolution is made for race. But out of the RS line /which is basically a gruppe N car/, equipped some or more comfortable equipment.
Because the Mitsubishi pulled out of WRC what does it means? NOTHING.
Fact the WRC is only 2 manufaturers ...
Mitsubishi in the IRC as it should, Besides even when they runned WRC more grupe N car runned a same event then the factory
So who cares?
as today many and counting X runs grupe N and open class or grupe A.
Everything you sell in the market is a consumer car.
Just what you said there show how much you dont know about the EVo. Sorry i had to say that, but it is true.
The Evo was and still a race car from the factory, detuned for a street and not a way around.
The X RS or any RS model even limited to 120 mph- no brembos - lancer GTS breaks - wheels and intrerior and so on... so they are even less race cars?
The Evo is designed and build for race period, What you do with the car, that is your own thing. But doesnt change a fact , why and how its made.
It is really sad, i have to even say these things in the Evo forum.
here is the homologation document. Please read it through and then come back its not a race car , but you can make one out if it... Like a mazda miata or the VW GTI - r32 ... or so. If the Evo X is not build for race out from factory then i dont know what it is.
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
longer more detailed version
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
"No one's crying about anything Rob. The untrue part was your statement that it's a car made strictly for race/rally. Mitsu pulled out of the WRC, the X is a consumer car that consumers may or may not use to pursue their motorsport interests. The X is not a race car - it can be made into one, but it isn't one."
The Evolution is made for race. Every part is comply with the FIA regulations , which is very strict. SO when you tell me i said untrue thing ... Well you being very untrue here and for a purpose.
Here is the homologation document for you to see how detailed is. Also how much you have to pay attention to be in the rules . The Evolution is made for race. But out of the RS line /which is basically a gruppe N car/, equipped some or more comfortable equipment.
Because the Mitsubishi pulled out of WRC what does it means? NOTHING.
Fact the WRC is only 2 manufaturers ...
Mitsubishi in the IRC as it should, Besides even when they runned WRC more grupe N car runned a same event then the factory
So who cares?
as today many and counting X runs grupe N and open class or grupe A.
Everything you sell in the market is a consumer car.
Just what you said there show how much you dont know about the EVo. Sorry i had to say that, but it is true.
The Evo was and still a race car from the factory, detuned for a street and not a way around.
The X RS or any RS model even limited to 120 mph- no brembos - lancer GTS breaks - wheels and intrerior and so on... so they are even less race cars?
The Evo is designed and build for race period, What you do with the car, that is your own thing. But doesnt change a fact , why and how its made.
It is really sad, i have to even say these things in the Evo forum.
here is the homologation document. Please read it through and then come back its not a race car , but you can make one out if it... Like a mazda miata or the VW GTI - r32 ... or so. If the Evo X is not build for race out from factory then i dont know what it is.
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
longer more detailed version
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
I think you're a little confused on how we're defining what a race car is. The Evo is a high performance consumer car that is used for motorsport based on the owner. What's a race car to you then? an M3? Is the STI a "race car" too? A ford focus? What's really sad are these quibbles based on definitions of english words.
From your original post, you said "the Evolution is made for rally and race. Period." to which I responded, untrue. Then you admit it's a consumer car...????? You said crap like the feel of a car didn't matter. Which it does. Just stop man.
Last edited by kyoo; Dec 7, 2009 at 03:06 PM.
Dec 7, 2009, 03:12 PM
#2268
Most debates I've seen end on definitions of words and the individual interpretations. It's obvious Robevo RS isn't from the US. So I think this will happen more so. I think both of you have great points and it'd go better if there wasn't any personal attacks.
With that being said, I think Robevo's main point is the Evo X comes out of the factory meeting Groupe N guidelines. I don't think the M3 and Ford Focus RS do. Do they?
Yah the car (in every way) is subjective to opinion, but that doesn't take away what it's meant for or designed for (as I'm sure you're aware of).
With that being said, I think Robevo's main point is the Evo X comes out of the factory meeting Groupe N guidelines. I don't think the M3 and Ford Focus RS do. Do they?
Yah the car (in every way) is subjective to opinion, but that doesn't take away what it's meant for or designed for (as I'm sure you're aware of).
Dec 7, 2009, 03:13 PM
#2269
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
longer more detailed version
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
longer more detailed version
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
Can you post the two different docs please?
Dec 7, 2009, 03:17 PM
#2270
You must be joking me. You admit it's a consumer car, and you say it's a race car and insult my intelligence of the car? Of course I know the history and development of the Evo. I think what it's really showing is your confusion of the language that's being used.
I think you're a little confused on how we're defining what a race car is. The Evo is a high performance consumer car that is used for motorsport based on the owner. What's a race car to you then? an M3? Is the STI a "race car" too? A ford focus? What's really sad are these quibbles based on definitions of english words.
From your original post, you said "the Evolution is made for rally and race. Period." to which I responded, untrue. Then you admit it's a consumer car...????? You said crap like the feel of a car didn't matter. Which it does. Just stop man.
I think you're a little confused on how we're defining what a race car is. The Evo is a high performance consumer car that is used for motorsport based on the owner. What's a race car to you then? an M3? Is the STI a "race car" too? A ford focus? What's really sad are these quibbles based on definitions of english words.
From your original post, you said "the Evolution is made for rally and race. Period." to which I responded, untrue. Then you admit it's a consumer car...????? You said crap like the feel of a car didn't matter. Which it does. Just stop man.
Even when i showed you , the homolgation documents you still arguing... I think i have to quit in this one. After i showed you a car, made to comply an FIA rule book and you still doing blah blah. no reason to continue.
FYI the STI is a a detuned race car too, but the US version not really since the 2,5 engine. So from there is not as close as the Evo. And if you ask the STI drivers a smarter once they would give they kidney for the 2.0l version.
"Then you admit it's a consumer car...?????"
i never denyed it ...
How can i , when i brought it from a dealer??? Not custom made. Fact to be a rally, car you have to sell a certain amounts of cars every year for the road at the dealer....
I think everything you can buy at a dealer is aconsumer car, even if it s a race car ...
"What's really sad are these quibbles based on definitions of english words."
this is the point when you know you are defeated. When you come out like this... Even when you understand everything i said. Just because you answered them clearly...
Its just to lame.
Yes i know my English is far from perfect , but the fact is, i would be very grateful if we could continue in Hungarian.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Dec 7, 2009 at 03:19 PM.
Dec 7, 2009, 03:26 PM
#2272
Most debates I've seen end on definitions of words and the individual interpretations. It's obvious Robevo RS isn't from the US. So I think this will happen more so. I think both of you have great points and it'd go better if there wasn't any personal attacks.
With that being said, I think Robevo's main point is the Evo X comes out of the factory meeting Groupe N guidelines. I don't think the M3 and Ford Focus RS do. Do they?
Yah the car (in every way) is subjective to opinion, but that doesn't take away what it's meant for or designed for (as I'm sure you're aware of).
With that being said, I think Robevo's main point is the Evo X comes out of the factory meeting Groupe N guidelines. I don't think the M3 and Ford Focus RS do. Do they?
Yah the car (in every way) is subjective to opinion, but that doesn't take away what it's meant for or designed for (as I'm sure you're aware of).
But there are certain Citroens - Lancia's ALfas and Seats OR SKODA's which they are also have a special edition for racers. So they are just form a roll cage a way from being a race car.
Not to mix the line up like the RA is not an EVo
Dec 7, 2009, 03:26 PM
#2273
you got to joking me. Not i have a problem to define a race car... Maybe you have..
Even when i showed you , the homolgation documents you still arguing... I think i have to quit in this one. After i showed you a car, made to comply an FIA rule book and you still doing blah blah. no reason to continue.
FYI the STI is a a detuned race car too, but the US version not really since the 2,5 engine. So from there is not as close as the Evo. And if you ask the STI drivers a smarter once they would give they kidney for the 2.0l version.
"Then you admit it's a consumer car...?????"
i never denyed it ...
How can i , when i brought it from a dealer??? Not custom made.
I think everything you can buy at a dealer is aconsumer car, even if it s a race car ...
"What's really sad are these quibbles based on definitions of english words."
this is the point when you know you are defeated. When you come out like this... Even when you understand everything i said. Just because you answered them clearly...
Its just to lame.
Yes i know my English is far from perfect , but the fact is, i would be very grateful if we could continue in Hungarian.
Even when i showed you , the homolgation documents you still arguing... I think i have to quit in this one. After i showed you a car, made to comply an FIA rule book and you still doing blah blah. no reason to continue.
FYI the STI is a a detuned race car too, but the US version not really since the 2,5 engine. So from there is not as close as the Evo. And if you ask the STI drivers a smarter once they would give they kidney for the 2.0l version.
"Then you admit it's a consumer car...?????"
i never denyed it ...
How can i , when i brought it from a dealer??? Not custom made.
I think everything you can buy at a dealer is aconsumer car, even if it s a race car ...
"What's really sad are these quibbles based on definitions of english words."
this is the point when you know you are defeated. When you come out like this... Even when you understand everything i said. Just because you answered them clearly...
Its just to lame.
Yes i know my English is far from perfect , but the fact is, i would be very grateful if we could continue in Hungarian.
The consumer car is a passenger vehicle - though it may be a high performance passenger vehicle, like the Evo X - it is a high performance vehicle used for whatever the consumer wishes it to be.
??? your responses are lame. I know what you're attempting to say, and refuting it. Yes, it's made to comply FIA rules. So that CONSUMERS who wish to USE the production car as a race car may do so without major modification. Does it need a cage? Well I hope so. Does it come with a cage? No....
Dec 7, 2009, 03:28 PM
#2274
here is the new links
long version
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
some reason the short version doesnt come down . i'll try later.
long version
http://www.ralliart.co.jp/GRN/homolo...ancerEvo10.pdf
some reason the short version doesnt come down . i'll try later.
Dec 7, 2009, 03:28 PM
#2275
i dont know the M3 but they have a GTR version if i'm right that is might be comply the DTM or WTCC rule book so it can be. The Focus is not as far as i know.
But there are certain Citroens - Lancia's ALfas and Seats OR SKODA's which they are also have a special edition for racers. So they are just form a roll cage a way from being a race car.
Not to mix the line up like the RA is not an EVo
But there are certain Citroens - Lancia's ALfas and Seats OR SKODA's which they are also have a special edition for racers. So they are just form a roll cage a way from being a race car.
Not to mix the line up like the RA is not an EVo
Also by your definition, my 9 is a race car... It's not. It's really fast, performs really well, etc.. but it's not a RACE car
Last edited by kyoo; Dec 7, 2009 at 03:40 PM.
Dec 7, 2009, 03:33 PM
#2276
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Rob has presented proof of his claims, kyooch has presented his case based on well-thought opinion (although not sure how many miles has he clocked in an X on the track just to personally compare?), Migs pointed out interesting comparos between the evos being an owner of both (even quoting Clarkson). All good points especially to someone who is undecided as to whether he should trade his IX/VIII for an X.
But in the case of the OP (before this thread got merged), this debate no longer holds value....he has made his choice (posted his IX up for sale). If I were him, I would keep it just for the fact than an IX MR+SE under 5K miles is such a rare car.
But in the case of the OP (before this thread got merged), this debate no longer holds value....he has made his choice (posted his IX up for sale). If I were him, I would keep it just for the fact than an IX MR+SE under 5K miles is such a rare car.
Last edited by tipoytm; Dec 7, 2009 at 03:39 PM.
Dec 7, 2009, 03:42 PM
#2277
To me a race car is a custom built car with only the purpose of racing in the types of races that it is built for. Such as your rally car Evo X, far from a stock Evo X you can buy at a dealership. It is custom built to accomplish the task that it was designed for. A race car is not a consumer car.
The consumer car is a passenger vehicle - though it may be a high performance passenger vehicle, like the Evo X - it is a high performance vehicle used for whatever the consumer wishes it to be.
??? your responses are lame. I know what you're attempting to say, and refuting it. Yes, it's made to comply FIA rules. So that CONSUMERS who wish to USE the production car as a race car may do so without major modification. Does it need a cage? Well I hope so. Does it come with a cage? No....
The consumer car is a passenger vehicle - though it may be a high performance passenger vehicle, like the Evo X - it is a high performance vehicle used for whatever the consumer wishes it to be.
??? your responses are lame. I know what you're attempting to say, and refuting it. Yes, it's made to comply FIA rules. So that CONSUMERS who wish to USE the production car as a race car may do so without major modification. Does it need a cage? Well I hope so. Does it come with a cage? No....
First of all to run a rally you have to have a car its been sold something like 2500 car on the market/consumer car/ Other wise you cant run a rally event.
No custom build car.
You try to twist it but sadly facts are facts. Evo is a race car if you call a rally car a race car, from 1990. When a first Lancer Evo came out.
It is build by FIA rules , not by customer requests. That is a Lancer and today is a lancer and a Ralliart. The Evolution has different dimensions, different wheel base and different materials and suspension geometry etc.
You cant sell a 4 door sedan on the market with a FIA roll cage ... that is stupid...
But they have to so they dont put it in,other wise i bet the RS model would have one. just like the Porsche RS. At least a base one... The RS model doesnt even have real breaks on them... As i told you before... But i dont know how many times i have to say that.
My EVo X is bone stock Evo X GSR, with empty interior, FIA cage , cat back , and K&N airfilter , MBC tune , plus a restrictor plate which is makes it even lees hp the a factory car, Only safety equipment is installed as the factory planned. And the neccesary upgrades to run a restrictor plate.
My car is a grupe N car. Even a swaybars are OEM. Nothing have to be change to run a grupe N ... Why? because it was designed and build for that reason.
There is a BIG difference build a race car from a high performance car /such as Vette or mazda MS3/ and modify a race car with safety equipment to race with it.
Since it s been detuned to sell for a street to being able to race with it in the rally.
If you want to know more we are close to each other we can sit down one of these days , and have a chat.
I'm sure it would be beneficial .
I'm out of this. /i gotto go /
Cheers ROb
as usual no hard feelings .
Last edited by Robevo RS; Dec 7, 2009 at 03:48 PM.
Dec 7, 2009, 03:46 PM
#2279
So basically your definition of a race car is anything that complies with whatever rule book made for that type racing.... Then a Ford Focus is a race car, and a Civic Si is a race car.. Anything that complies with whatever all the rules for racing are..
Also by your definition, my 9 is a race car... It's not. It's really fast, performs really well, etc.. but it's not a RACE car
Also by your definition, my 9 is a race car... It's not. It's really fast, performs really well, etc.. but it's not a RACE car
Not what ever rule book ... I'm talking about EVo . Which are made for race and build by a rule book. Not like the Ralliart ...
Many cars fit probably in the rule book but sure they didn't build by it.
There is a huge difference.
Dec 7, 2009, 03:49 PM
#2280
so here we go..
First of all to run a rally you have to have a car its been sold something like 2500 car on the market/consumer car/ Other wise you cant run a rally event.
No custom build car.
You try to twist it but sadly facts are facts. Evo is a race car if you call a rally car a race car, from 1990. When a first Lancer Evo came out.
It is build by FIA rules , not by customer requests. That is a Lancer and today is a lancer and a Ralliart. The Evolution has different dimensions, different wheel base and different materials and suspension geometry etc.
You cant sell a 4 door sedan on the market with a FIA roll cage ... that is stupid...
But they have to so they dont put it in,other wise i bet the RS model would have one. just like the Porsche RS. At least a base one... The RS model doesnt even have real breaks on them... As i told you before... But i dont know how many times i have to say that.
My EVo X is bone stock Evo X GSR, with empty interior, FIA cage , cat back , and K&N airfilter , MBC tune , plus a restrictor plate which is makes it even lees hp the a factory car, Only safety equipment is installed as the factory planned. And the neccesary upgrades to run a restrictor plate.
My car is a grupe N car. Even a swaybars are OEM. Nothing have to be change dot run a grupe N ... Why? because it was designed and build for that reason.
There is a BIG difference build a race car from a high performance car /such as Vette or mazda MS3/ and modify a race car with safety equipment to race with it.
Since it s been detuned to sell for a street to being able to race with it in the rally.
If you want to know more we are close to each other we can sit down one of these days , and have a chat.
I'm sure it would be beneficial .
I'm out of this. /i gotto go /
Cheers ROb
as usual no hard feelings .
First of all to run a rally you have to have a car its been sold something like 2500 car on the market/consumer car/ Other wise you cant run a rally event.
No custom build car.
You try to twist it but sadly facts are facts. Evo is a race car if you call a rally car a race car, from 1990. When a first Lancer Evo came out.
It is build by FIA rules , not by customer requests. That is a Lancer and today is a lancer and a Ralliart. The Evolution has different dimensions, different wheel base and different materials and suspension geometry etc.
You cant sell a 4 door sedan on the market with a FIA roll cage ... that is stupid...
But they have to so they dont put it in,other wise i bet the RS model would have one. just like the Porsche RS. At least a base one... The RS model doesnt even have real breaks on them... As i told you before... But i dont know how many times i have to say that.
My EVo X is bone stock Evo X GSR, with empty interior, FIA cage , cat back , and K&N airfilter , MBC tune , plus a restrictor plate which is makes it even lees hp the a factory car, Only safety equipment is installed as the factory planned. And the neccesary upgrades to run a restrictor plate.
My car is a grupe N car. Even a swaybars are OEM. Nothing have to be change dot run a grupe N ... Why? because it was designed and build for that reason.
There is a BIG difference build a race car from a high performance car /such as Vette or mazda MS3/ and modify a race car with safety equipment to race with it.
Since it s been detuned to sell for a street to being able to race with it in the rally.
If you want to know more we are close to each other we can sit down one of these days , and have a chat.
I'm sure it would be beneficial .
I'm out of this. /i gotto go /
Cheers ROb
as usual no hard feelings .
I'm not saying it's not a homologation of a a rally car, I know the requirements that the manufacturer has to sell it. I'm saying it's not built and sold for people to drive off the lot and go racing. There is customization that you have to do. That's not a "race car" to me. If it needs modification, any car can be modified into a "race car"
So you're saying the Evo is a "race" car because it is built by the rules rather than just fitting into those rules..