Evo X vs. Evo VIII and IX
Feb 3, 2008, 09:09 PM
#361
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As shiv, of vishnu tuning said, there really is no category that the x doesn't trump the 9. Better handling, brakes, and with a rough, unfinalized tune the x makes more power to the wheels than an evo 9 with a tune AND a TBE, catless. It doesn't matter if part of the huge gains are due to the car running so rich from the factory, that just shows how detuned the car is from the factory.
Why can't you people just accept this and move on. This isn't like a start from scratch car.
It may have a new platform, but it's technology built off of the years of experience designing the evo, and it is an improvement. Every tuner so far gives the nod to the car. Every magazine says it's better than the 9. A lot of X buyers are new evo owners, but that just shows that true enthusiasts appreciate the car. They don't have an 8 or a 9 to jade their view. As I've mentioned many, many times before, the 9 is a great car, but the x is the more capable machine. Don't take my word for it, take every tuner and car magazine's word for it. Arguing against this is becoming more and more of an uphill battle for you guys. Get over it and move on. Keep your 9 if you can't accept this and stfu.
The car isn't proven yet, and your statement validates the reason why I made this thread. It's fanboyism at best!
-M
Feb 3, 2008, 09:20 PM
#362
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Man I just read this whole thread I hate to break it to you VII-IX owners (I have three lol) but the last "REAL EVO" was the tommi 6.5...(last mitsu to win at the WRC level) following your logic everything after it is a loser!
Look I make my living making cars corner faster and handle better and the new X chassis is SUPERIOR PERIOD. Once they get the motor mods on line I'm predicting equal hp X's will be faster around the racetrack (the ones with corners lol) even caring a few more lbs...
Look I make my living making cars corner faster and handle better and the new X chassis is SUPERIOR PERIOD. Once they get the motor mods on line I'm predicting equal hp X's will be faster around the racetrack (the ones with corners lol) even caring a few more lbs...
What I hate about the X is ppl are comparing it to REAL Evos..! They are so different, unlike a 1-2,2-3,4-5,6-7,8-9.
This is a different tale as for one its aimed at the older crowd, Mitsu cares about money know more than ever in comparison as to when it just wanted to get it sales done to enter the damn thing into the WRC.
I hate the X fanboys who dont know nothing about the Evo except the fact that is fast and got their asses handed to them in their prior civics, sti, camaros, stangs, srt-POOR, and they feel the need to have one.. hahaha..! Hence why I think they should of limited the production but hey MONEY makes the world go round!
Man if mitsu wanted a new direction they should of just created a new breed, a new legend if you so want to call it as all they did was stain a legend.. who looks and its nothing like the X.. No 4G63.. WTF? I am sure they could of added MIVEC to the exhaust side and redefined the head making it more eco-friendly as well as throwing the AYC for the USDM making it lap faster.
From now on am calling this car the SUPER SEDAN X as its not worthy of a Evolution Badge..!
This is a different tale as for one its aimed at the older crowd, Mitsu cares about money know more than ever in comparison as to when it just wanted to get it sales done to enter the damn thing into the WRC.
I hate the X fanboys who dont know nothing about the Evo except the fact that is fast and got their asses handed to them in their prior civics, sti, camaros, stangs, srt-POOR, and they feel the need to have one.. hahaha..! Hence why I think they should of limited the production but hey MONEY makes the world go round!
Man if mitsu wanted a new direction they should of just created a new breed, a new legend if you so want to call it as all they did was stain a legend.. who looks and its nothing like the X.. No 4G63.. WTF? I am sure they could of added MIVEC to the exhaust side and redefined the head making it more eco-friendly as well as throwing the AYC for the USDM making it lap faster.
From now on am calling this car the SUPER SEDAN X as its not worthy of a Evolution Badge..!
Feb 3, 2008, 10:26 PM
#363
^lol, that's funny. Btw robi, I hear that you are the go to guy for suspension mods for the evo. Everyone seems very fond of your work, and I would like to purchase some parts from you for my X when they become available. And to boostez, what I meant when I said that it's not a start from scratch car is that it's built off of leared technologies from all the evolutions. It's not like kia just took over the evo brand name. It's using a far more advanced AWD system than any evo of past, but it's still based on what was learned from all the past evos. Dr. EVO knew what he was doing when he built the X. And uh, if you want to dispute the fact that the X motor makes more power than the IX, check out every tuning company's opinions and dyno charts. I never claimed that the aluminum block of the 4b11 can hold as much power as the iron block 4g63. However it is a FACT, PROVEN WITH UNDISPUTABLE EVIDENCE, that mod for mod the X makes more power. The fact that it's running so rich from the factory, as well as the fact that the cams are very small, and the turbo's boost taper is very conservative from the factory, just goes to show that the car is very detuned in stock form, and just as underrated as the 9 ever was. As I said so many times before, the 9 is a great car, but the X is better. It doesn't matter what you think, what matters is what all the major tuners and car magazines are saying. Who's wrong, you or the pros? Get over it, and FTR, you are the one being the fanboy. I have an unbiased opinion, as I own an sti, not an evo, and have driven both the evo 8 and 9, modded and unmodded, street and track. True enthusiasts don't let brand or model loyalty/fanboyism affect their views on the greatness or the lack thereof of a given automobile. They judge purely based on experience and the facts/technical data. Stop trying to justify this bizarre theory that your evo 9 is some "last of the mohicans" automotive god. It's been replaced by a better, more well rounded machine. Get over it.
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Feb 3, 2008 at 11:15 PM. Reason: typo
Feb 3, 2008, 10:44 PM
#364
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Well I got so excited about the X and the New STi I worked for 2 weeks @ KW's USA facility and built suspensions for both cars..I can now do anything to the new chassis that I could with the old and I have even more adjustability....Oh did I mention the car rides better too? Look forward to working with you on your X
Feb 3, 2008, 11:33 PM
#365
I think the point of this whole conversation is being missed. Sure, maybe the X motor is going to be more powerful, we already know the car handles better, rides better, has better interior options, etc. The only reoccurring theme I am seeing here is something we wont have an answer on for at least 2 years. That is the reliability of the motor.
This thread should have been titled, "4B11 vs 4G63" since thats the main arguing point from the previous gens. And, there is no point in even talking about this since the jury is still out on the 4B11 engine. It just hasn't been enough time.
I am glad everyone got a thread they could just rant in, but it just seems pointless right now since we dont have all the data. Everyone can keep guessing / assuming whats going to happen, but neither side of this coin has anything when it comes to the motor right now. As for all the other components, this was a HUGE upgrade for the American EVO market.
This thread should have been titled, "4B11 vs 4G63" since thats the main arguing point from the previous gens. And, there is no point in even talking about this since the jury is still out on the 4B11 engine. It just hasn't been enough time.
I am glad everyone got a thread they could just rant in, but it just seems pointless right now since we dont have all the data. Everyone can keep guessing / assuming whats going to happen, but neither side of this coin has anything when it comes to the motor right now. As for all the other components, this was a HUGE upgrade for the American EVO market.
Feb 4, 2008, 07:25 AM
#367
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And to boostez, what I meant when I said that it's not a start from scratch car is that it's built off of leared technologies from all the evolutions. It's not like kia just took over the evo brand name. It's using a far more advanced AWD system than any evo of past, but it's still based on what was learned from all the past evos.
Originally Posted by STi2EvoX
However it is a FACT, PROVEN WITH UNDISPUTABLE EVIDENCE, that mod for mod the X makes more power. The fact that it's running so rich from the factory, as well as the fact that the cams are very small, and the turbo's boost taper is very conservative from the factory, just goes to show that the car is very detuned in stock form, and just as underrated as the 9 ever was. As I said so many times before, the 9 is a great car, but the X is better.
Originally Posted by BOOSTEZ
Kevin,
Thanks for the info.
Question: if the X's turbo is so small compared to the other evo gens, how is it even possible to think it may produce more power (when all is said and done) - full bolt-on IX stock turbo vs. full bolt-on X stock turbo??
Thanks for the info.
Question: if the X's turbo is so small compared to the other evo gens, how is it even possible to think it may produce more power (when all is said and done) - full bolt-on IX stock turbo vs. full bolt-on X stock turbo??
Originally Posted by Z1500
It's not. The X engine is likely going to be more efficient and make more power out of less air. But I think the larger IX turbo will overcome and always make ~40whp more. This is just a best guess, we don't have any tuning done on the X yet and we still don't know if the e-throttle is screwing with us.
Last edited by BOOSTEZ; Feb 4, 2008 at 07:29 AM.
Feb 4, 2008, 08:01 AM
#369
Man I just read this whole thread I hate to break it to you VII-IX owners (I have three lol) but the last "REAL EVO" was the tommi 6.5...(last mitsu to win at the WRC level) following your logic everything after it is a loser!
Look I make my living making cars corner faster and handle better and the new X chassis is SUPERIOR PERIOD. Once they get the motor mods on line I'm predicting equal hp X's will be faster around the racetrack (the ones with corners lol) even caring a few more lbs...
Look I make my living making cars corner faster and handle better and the new X chassis is SUPERIOR PERIOD. Once they get the motor mods on line I'm predicting equal hp X's will be faster around the racetrack (the ones with corners lol) even caring a few more lbs...
Feb 4, 2008, 10:42 AM
#370
Man I just read this whole thread I hate to break it to you VII-IX owners (I have three lol) but the last "REAL EVO" was the tommi 6.5...(last mitsu to win at the WRC level) following your logic everything after it is a loser!
Look I make my living making cars corner faster and handle better and the new X chassis is SUPERIOR PERIOD. Once they get the motor mods on line I'm predicting equal hp X's will be faster around the racetrack (the ones with corners lol) even caring a few more lbs...
Look I make my living making cars corner faster and handle better and the new X chassis is SUPERIOR PERIOD. Once they get the motor mods on line I'm predicting equal hp X's will be faster around the racetrack (the ones with corners lol) even caring a few more lbs...
Good info from somebody with first hand in depth interaction with both chassis. Chassis is a hard thing to change, horsepower not so much. So all these boy racers who only care about horsepower and straight line speed stick to your EVO VIII & IX as thats the only thing they are better at currently. 1000hp will be capable on this new motor one day, I guarantee it. Little honda 1.6L aluminum blocks that are 10+ years old can do it, ecotec's can do it, why cant mitsubishi 2008 motor built for boost? This is a lame point anyways as how many people ever go over 400whp, 500whp? Maybe 1%? So keep arguing for that 1% of people who want 1000hp! Those 1% of people who want 1000hp will have the money to sleeve the 4b11t and not worry about the aluminum block.
Feb 4, 2008, 11:24 AM
#371
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great point,
lets take this back one more time, about a month or 2 ago when the biggest argument coming from the X haters (like BOOSTEZ) was the the new car was "fat" and that it surely means that it will be slow as a turtle based on 0-60 times, and this is when some tests were clocking these at about 5.2 seconds. My response was when will you ever need to used that .2 or .4 seconds to save your life or win a million bucks at the track, probably never ! (now some tests show it as fast as 4.8, i believe)
Like many here said, X is already proving itself to have much better suspension/AWD system, brakes, as well as more comfort features which people *****ed about not having on the VIII/IX, interior seems of higher quality; exterior looks are subjective so that could go either way.
However,we are now slowly starting to see that the X is responding nicely to mods, ecu compensation, and this is even before we can tune this car.
I dont know about you, but i am excited.
And BOOSTEZ, Yes, you do sound like a X hater, which probably makes you one
Good info from somebody with first hand in depth interaction with both chassis.
Chassis is a hard thing to change, horsepower not so much. So all these boy racers who only care about horsepower and straight line speed stick to your EVO VIII & IX as thats the only thing they are better at currently. 1000hp will be capable on this new motor one day, I guarantee it. Little honda 1.6L aluminum blocks that are 10+ years old can do it, ecotec's can do it, why cant mitsubishi 2008 motor built for boost? This is a lame point anyways as how many people ever go over 400whp, 500whp? Maybe 1%? So keep arguing for that 1% of people who want 1000hp! Those 1% of people who want 1000hp will have the money to sleeve the 4b11t and not worry about the aluminum block.
lets take this back one more time, about a month or 2 ago when the biggest argument coming from the X haters (like BOOSTEZ) was the the new car was "fat" and that it surely means that it will be slow as a turtle based on 0-60 times, and this is when some tests were clocking these at about 5.2 seconds. My response was when will you ever need to used that .2 or .4 seconds to save your life or win a million bucks at the track, probably never ! (now some tests show it as fast as 4.8, i believe)
Like many here said, X is already proving itself to have much better suspension/AWD system, brakes, as well as more comfort features which people *****ed about not having on the VIII/IX, interior seems of higher quality; exterior looks are subjective so that could go either way.
However,we are now slowly starting to see that the X is responding nicely to mods, ecu compensation, and this is even before we can tune this car.
I dont know about you, but i am excited.
And BOOSTEZ, Yes, you do sound like a X hater, which probably makes you one
Good info from somebody with first hand in depth interaction with both chassis. Chassis is a hard thing to change, horsepower not so much. So all these boy racers who only care about horsepower and straight line speed stick to your EVO VIII & IX as thats the only thing they are better at currently. 1000hp will be capable on this new motor one day, I guarantee it. Little honda 1.6L aluminum blocks that are 10+ years old can do it, ecotec's can do it, why cant mitsubishi 2008 motor built for boost? This is a lame point anyways as how many people ever go over 400whp, 500whp? Maybe 1%? So keep arguing for that 1% of people who want 1000hp! Those 1% of people who want 1000hp will have the money to sleeve the 4b11t and not worry about the aluminum block.
Last edited by pltek; Feb 4, 2008 at 11:26 AM.
Feb 4, 2008, 11:24 AM
#372
Man I just read this whole thread I hate to break it to you VII-IX owners (I have three lol) but the last "REAL EVO" was the tommi 6.5...(last mitsu to win at the WRC level) following your logic everything after it is a loser!
Look I make my living making cars corner faster and handle better and the new X chassis is SUPERIOR PERIOD. Once they get the motor mods on line I'm predicting equal hp X's will be faster around the racetrack (the ones with corners lol) even caring a few more lbs...
Look I make my living making cars corner faster and handle better and the new X chassis is SUPERIOR PERIOD. Once they get the motor mods on line I'm predicting equal hp X's will be faster around the racetrack (the ones with corners lol) even caring a few more lbs...
BUT here is the news what most guys like to hide or don't know... The IX are running much better in the eu or jap. rally then the VI. Period.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Feb 4, 2008 at 11:37 AM.
Feb 4, 2008, 12:01 PM
#373
Good info from somebody with first hand in depth interaction with both chassis. Chassis is a hard thing to change, horsepower not so much. So all these boy racers who only care about horsepower and straight line speed stick to your EVO VIII & IX as thats the only thing they are better at currently. 1000hp will be capable on this new motor one day, I guarantee it. Little honda 1.6L aluminum blocks that are 10+ years old can do it, ecotec's can do it, why cant mitsubishi 2008 motor built for boost? This is a lame point anyways as how many people ever go over 400whp, 500whp? Maybe 1%? So keep arguing for that 1% of people who want 1000hp! Those 1% of people who want 1000hp will have the money to sleeve the 4b11t and not worry about the aluminum block.
Feb 4, 2008, 12:01 PM
#374
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well if you think think like that , then there is some info you miss. the evo's are still the dominant at the WRC in the "N" category. Only thing is ,because they drive train, they cant compete further / like groupe A/and when you change the drive train they size and weight is deafet them. So that is why they stay in the N category. Now i'm sure the X will be a true follower .
BUT here is the news what most guys like to hide or don't know... The IX are running much better in the eu or jap. rally then the VI. Period.
BUT here is the news what most guys like to hide or don't know... The IX are running much better in the eu or jap. rally then the VI. Period.
Feb 4, 2008, 12:09 PM
#375
I remember when the VII came out, it was contriversal too, but not like this. So many bs opinion about both cars, sometimes i think i'm in the civic forum... you know like those: " lock it up dude" threads ..
The X is a better car , i know. It is ready yet? i'm not sure. People come out final conclusion already ,why? They opinion are legit or hard facts? i 'm not so sure yet.
As you know so many issues is out there, and the test are just started. I will be change my car for the new one for sure. But i'm waiting untill at least i can see little more then just numbers. And you know exactly what i mean.