FJF

iTrader: (18)

At the risk of sounding argumentitive, I'd like to point something out, as "refined" is one of the most misused words in the automotive lexicon.

Refined = purified, made to be more streamlined in its goal.

If a luxury car is made more luxurious, it is refined. If a performance machine is made more suited for its original purpose, it is refined. If a performance machine is made less direct, it is the opposite of refined.

BOOSTEZ

iTrader: (1)

The IX has a larger flowing turbo than the VIII and thus is up 30whp more than the VIII in every aspect. Does that make it better? If I were a person who just bought the IX and only had enough money for a few bolt-ons for a small price to go fast, then yes, it is better than the VIII as far as more bang for the buck. However, if I owned and VIII (as I do) and I spent an extra $500 to get the same whp as my buddy with the IX, then it's no better. This of course, is because every other aspect of the car is identical.

I'm actually not looking for a validation, but defending the claim to fame: the X is better than the 8/9. Let's look at it. Why do people say this? Why are people trading in their older gens for this newer gen? They surely know that whatever whp the X can do, the 8/9 can also do. I would argue that there has to be something that the X does that no amount of money will change to make it better. For example, the SAYC is just not going to show up on the 8/9 and there is no way to make an 8/9 mimic this behavior. In this regard, the X is better. Period. But what else?

-M

acme20000

I think you just answered your own question..."Why is everyone trading thier 8,9's" Cause it's better! People are entitled to think what ever they want... if you don't like it Stay out the X forums... Deep down you wanna be us.

BOOSTEZ

iTrader: (1)

You absolutely did NOT help the discussion at all..

Give reasons WHY you THINK it's better! Don't just say "it's better.."

PDXEvo

iTrader: (4)

Personally, I think the IX is a far better car then the VIII. Beyond the turbo, they got MiVEC and ACD. The first time I rode in a IX I was blown away by how much harder the car pulled in the upper RPM's. With identical bolt ons, the IX was always faster due to that upper power band that the VIII lacked. Stock VIII ran 13.1 - 13.5 stock 1/4, stock IX ran 12.6-13.1 1/4's.

The problem with this comparison is the bulk of the variables that are being compared either A: dont have enough data or B: are completely subjective. As far as all the aesthetics goes, its opinion. Even ride quality is subjective since some people think the bouncy ride is better then smooth. The only thing we know for sure are the following.

- Handling on the X is better then the VIII (Pulls .99g on skid pad vs .97)
Sure, here you could bring up the slalom test, but that comparison was made to a IX, not an VIII. I also question the validity of the failure analysis on that test anyway. Slalom is a corner case test, and has no long term practicality. Now before everyone goes off the handle on this, watch the videos again and realize the X didnt start to have issues until the 3rd and 4th slalom. The reality is for quick swerve adjustments, the X is better. And the swerving test has more practicality then the slalom. But even focusing on this is focusing on the exception to the rule. So the X loses some handling points for this test, but still performs better in the other 9 tests, so who cares.

You have pretty much nailed it as far as all the other stuff goes. The only thing you cant add is the SAYC. You could upgrade your seats, put in GPS/NAV, get an almost like factory blue tooth (though it wont be as good), make your interior better, get better suspension to solve the ride complaints, spend a **** ton of money getting a good cruise control system, etc on an VIII. Hell, you could even buy aftermarket body panels that make the car look like an X, if its looks you are after.

At the end of the day, its just a car. So in that aspect, everything is equal. We all know you can make anything fast, so you cant compare speeds. You cant focus on weight, since its easy to reduce weight in a car. The reality is if someone wants to make the X go faster then the VIII in the quarter, it will happen. But if you are comparing stock to stock, then it all boils down to the goals of the person buying the car. I would say that the X appeals to a much larger crowd then the VIII or IX did, but that is my opinion. Only real sales data will determine the reality of that statement.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

"I would say that the X appeals to a much larger crowd then the VIII or IX did, but that is my opinion."

i think so too.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

what do you mean by us?

madfast

you see but this is where the overall package comes into play. the X has a better chassis, better interior (talking strictly amenities here as interior style is subjective), better safety, S-AWC, SST, etc. so while your 360 hp IX may be slightly faster than my 400 hp X in a straight line, my X will be rocking to a 650 watt rockford fosgate system on satellite radio following directions on my slick nav system never fearing injury with the 7 airbags i know i have, etc....

the main thing about the X people were hating on was the engine, and the tuners have already proven in mere days after its release that the car has a lot of potential. to the everyday man, the engine is less of a concern as the entire package. in that regard the X is plain BETTER to MOST people. so while you or others can hold on to the proven record of the 4G63, i'm looking to the future. to see what the 4B11T can do with the better chassis, better interior, etc. it's not always about speed. enthusiast or not, we all enjoy cool features.

again i ask. what MAJOR weaknesses does the X have? it's a GREAT package. better overall than the IX. just because ultimately it may not be faster than the IX, doesn't mean that it's not better in all other aspects. that counts for something, and to a lot of people might i add. you can't add more airbags that may save your life. you can't add MIVEC on the exhaust cam. you can't realistically weld the chassis to get more rigidity, etc. etc. etc.

engine vs engine, we have yet to see the final tally. but if decades of technology can't beat the 4G63... i don't know what can...

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

"you can't add MIVEC on the exhaust cam. you can't realistically weld the chassis to get more rigidity, etc. etc. etc. "

you dont need to add a mivec cam , just a regular cam update, that is equaled it out the differences between the VIII and a IX too. so it will the IX and the X.
yep you can make the chassie more rigid.
other wise i cant comment since i had an Evo SSL and i did go for RS...
So those point for me are useless/650 watt stereo airbags etc/ I'm using the car as a track car. Matter a fact i'm looking for to take out the AC..

madfast

you don't need to, but you can never do so if you ever want to. advantage evo X. that's my point. i can't argue the value of MIVEC on the exhaust cam, as i am no tuning wizard. BUT the fact remains that the X has it and can use it if i ever want to.

"anything you can do i can do better..." the X starts off with a way more rigid chassis. yes you can make the IX chassis more rigid, but you will never 1 up the X because it starts out on top, waaaay higher than a normal budget allows. if you are HKS and have loads of cash then of course you can modify the chassis till it ceases to be an evo chassis anymore but the point remains that the normal tuner will never make the IX chassis more rigid than the X can be made rigid within reasonable budget.

YOU are using the car as a race car. OTHERS are not. AC is DESIRABLE for 99% of us. YOUR opinion in this case means SQUAT!!! seriously though, you can't possibly apply your preferences to the entire populace.

BOOSTEZ

iTrader: (1)

Madfast,

Excellent post!!

I disagree. Firstly, I already have a better Nav/stereo system (check my avatar) than the one that comes with the X - and it's 4 years old. Secondly, I have $40k to burn since my car is paid for. So realistically, I can almost do whatever I want to make myself happy with my car without having a car note.

Well, let's see how it compares to my VIII.

These are some of the complaints about the X since it's inception:

1) Erractic idle.
2) Notchy 1-2 syncros.
3) Bad hesitation at high rpms on WOT.
4) MAF CEL for difference in intake and TPS.
5) Squeeking dash panel.
6) Cheap paint that is prone to peel on the road.
7) Antenna that bends under hard braking causing damage to the roof.

So now, we have a new car that has some issues and an older car (my specific car) that has none.. I wouldn't trade the blown waterpump I had for any of these issues. No, I can't change the exhaust cam on my head, but I do have the extra funds to get whatever whp advantage your MIVEC cams give you. I can't put on your extra airbags, SAYC or soft ride you get.. but neither am I interested in putting those things on the car.

PDXEvo

iTrader: (4)

Lets not forget all the issues the VIII had upon release. Which included its own SES issue, bad transmission, bad breaks, warping wings, interior vibrations and a clunking front end that a TSB was released stating "Its normal", the same cheap paint, a sticking climate control system that had a TSB in place for it, and a few other things. Pointing out the flaws in the new car doesnt make the fact that the VIII had more then its fair share of issues vanish, so that is a total wash and a moot point.

I am surprised you think that the Nav system you have is better though. On that point, I would disagree only because I have used both. That is, of course, assuming you have what I think you have based on the picture.

And I still havent been able to get a clear answer on this antenna denting thing. Its not possible. The antenna doesnt "swivel" like the post said, and there just isnt enough mass on the thing to do this. I did several VERY hard brake procedures yesterday from 120 to 30, and I had no issues what so ever. Oh yeah, car brakes a lot better then I had expected. I had expected to have some wavering on the stop like I had with the VIII, but the car was very solid, considering its a couple hundred pounds heavier.

BOOSTEZ

iTrader: (1)

You are correct.. but *MY* car had none of those issues you mention. My wing never warped in paint. I don't have a bad transmission, SES issue, clunking front end, interior vibrations, nor does my paint have chips on the side doors like the X has.

LOL! Do a search on Pioneer AVIC N2. It comes with it's own gyro, DVD, NavTraffic, etc.. I can monitor g forces for side, front, braking, etc.. I can view my routes in 3D, look up stock quotes, and watch a movie while making out in a parking lot!

PDXEvo

iTrader: (4)

Thats what I thought you had. And guess what, we have all that too, except the internet, which I never saw working on the N2, and its a pointless feature until WiMax. We can also use the same hookups to get the logging built into the deck, and we can rip CD's down to the drive and have a full CDDB database on the system that auto names everything. Now that I think about it, how the hell do you get an internet connection on that? We have a DVD player as well, and it sits flush with the dash.

What paint chips on the side doors are you talking about? I have none of these issues. Did you buy your car brand new? If so, then you most certainly have these issues, and maybe dont care. I would put money down that you have lots of vibration noise in your car. Maybe you cant hear it because of how loud your exhaust is

You should go drive a X for a few days, you will know what I am talking about then. I didnt even notice how bad it was until I rode in my wifes brand new car and it was like being in a meditation garden while on the highway.

Oh yeah, thought of some other things the MMSC can do.
- Check SES error codes
- Altimeter / Temperature / Barometric pressure recording over 6 hour time line
- Full calendar with reminders for events etc
- Full maintenance tracking with user programmable reminders
- Full lap time counter with avg speed and mpg
- Car alarm setup and controls
- Adjust advanced car features including fast lane change blinkers, how the fob works, auto interior light shut off timers, and several other things
- Tale of the tape logs
- CAN bus system verification
- Speaker tests to validate all speaker channels
- Support for voice commands
- Built in rear viewing capabilities (Dont have to buy a module)
- Build in rear back up camera with bumber location and park assist (uses the same pioneer camera)
- Free map updates for the onboard 30gb HDD
- several other features that I am getting tired of listing...

BOOSTEZ

iTrader: (1)

Dude, there is no way you have the same features that the N2 has. Show me a screenshot of the GYRO features. Can it play a DVD movie? Can you hook up a camera to it so you can have live footage? Show me the 3D viewing for a particular route. How about bluetooth wireless hookup for your cell phone?

Btw, it's not an internet connection, it's just a feature of NavTraffic.

Rear door jams. There's a thread on it somewhere.

My car was a showroom floor car. It had 27 miles on it. And trust me man, I'm a stickler for neatness and subtle issues that would get on my nerves. I would not hesitate to either fix what needs to be fixed or get rid of the car. Period.

Don't waste your money.

I will test drive an Evo X. No worries. I've already seen the car up close and personal and as expected, the interior isn't appealing to me. But perhaps I can get that test drive someday!

Avic N2 has some of those features while the others are specific to your car. And of course, you know I have the ECUFlash software for logging everything on the ECU with my laptop..