Evo X vs. Evo VIII and IX
Mar 7, 2008, 07:16 PM
#796
All:
A lot of newbie X owners have this misconception that because the car handles excellently in a slalom that they will be able to PWN every car on the road course if/when they ever attend one. I just want to tell those guys a little story:
I had the opportunity to attend an all-day track course at Streets of Willow in LA 2 years ago. This was going to be my first experience driving on a road course. I was excited to lay the smackdown on the other cars that would attend. I had some friends that had S2000s, 240SXs, Elises, M3s, 996s, RX8s, and even older non-turbo RX7s. I thought "It was going to be lovely flying past these cats because most of them didn't have AWD!!!"
I had lowered my car, put on an adjustable anti-sway bar, got MR rims, RT-615 tires and a wheel alignment. I thought I was ready..
Got to the track and attended the classroom session. I eagerly waited for the instructor to give out all the safety rules, and we were off to start our first pass.
I got in my car, and started the roll along coast to get on the track. Punching it when the lane was clear, I quickly tried to catch people. It wasn't until I was putting my hand out for almost EVERY car to pass me that I realized that the EVO isn't so badass like I thought. I came in assuming that I needed very little driving skill and that the EVO's handling would correct all my mistakes and keep me on the road. Sadly, that was NOT the case.
I came from that all day course hating road racing. I got spanked by most of the newbies out there with the same skill level and hardly ANY of them had the sophisticated setup that I had. The 996 totally destroyed me and the Elise (my friend who had NEVER been at a RR before), non-turbo RX7, S2000 and BMW M3 completely destroyed me around turns too. In fact, the ONLY car out there that hit the dirt was ANOTHER EVO!!
I am sharing all this because I know some newbie evo X owners will think they have the baddest handling car on the market. Trust me, drivers with the older RWD cars can OWN you WITH your AYC, ASC, and AWD!
I plan to revisit this road racing experience, but this time I want to go back to traditional roots and LEARN to drive RWD.. I'll use my MR2 as a test bed.
In closing - "A car is only as fast as it's driver....."
-M
A lot of newbie X owners have this misconception that because the car handles excellently in a slalom that they will be able to PWN every car on the road course if/when they ever attend one. I just want to tell those guys a little story:
I had the opportunity to attend an all-day track course at Streets of Willow in LA 2 years ago. This was going to be my first experience driving on a road course. I was excited to lay the smackdown on the other cars that would attend. I had some friends that had S2000s, 240SXs, Elises, M3s, 996s, RX8s, and even older non-turbo RX7s. I thought "It was going to be lovely flying past these cats because most of them didn't have AWD!!!"
I had lowered my car, put on an adjustable anti-sway bar, got MR rims, RT-615 tires and a wheel alignment. I thought I was ready..
Got to the track and attended the classroom session. I eagerly waited for the instructor to give out all the safety rules, and we were off to start our first pass.
I got in my car, and started the roll along coast to get on the track. Punching it when the lane was clear, I quickly tried to catch people. It wasn't until I was putting my hand out for almost EVERY car to pass me that I realized that the EVO isn't so badass like I thought. I came in assuming that I needed very little driving skill and that the EVO's handling would correct all my mistakes and keep me on the road. Sadly, that was NOT the case.
I came from that all day course hating road racing. I got spanked by most of the newbies out there with the same skill level and hardly ANY of them had the sophisticated setup that I had. The 996 totally destroyed me and the Elise (my friend who had NEVER been at a RR before), non-turbo RX7, S2000 and BMW M3 completely destroyed me around turns too. In fact, the ONLY car out there that hit the dirt was ANOTHER EVO!!
I am sharing all this because I know some newbie evo X owners will think they have the baddest handling car on the market. Trust me, drivers with the older RWD cars can OWN you WITH your AYC, ASC, and AWD!
I plan to revisit this road racing experience, but this time I want to go back to traditional roots and LEARN to drive RWD.. I'll use my MR2 as a test bed.
In closing - "A car is only as fast as it's driver....."
-M
TRUE STORY: My first time on-track EVER I was in my stock '03 VIII with the Cascade Sports Car Club driving school at PIR, which has the authority to pass/fail people for their ICSCC novice license. I had only put about 4,000 miles on it at the time. Well, I passed the test the first day and the instructor said I would make an excellent race driver. He was pretty well astonished how quickly I (and the car) took to the track. The next track day was with the Porsche club, and I did a grand total of 1 session before I moved up to the advanced group (never did intermediate), and was even invited to another private track event later on that day because of how impressed people were with seeing the little red stock 4-banger flying around the track. Even in the advanced group, I was passing about half the people...even though I was one of the few people in the group with street tires (RT-215's in the wrong size, 245/45/17...Falken didn't have anything better back then). So...not everyone sucks at teh road course racing their first time out
. I did spin the car once that day (don't run over painted curbs when they are wet) but no damage done, and lesson learned.On another point, I tried to follow a friend of mine in his X around a 270 degree freeway onramp a couple weeks ago. He's never done a track day in his life, and would never even try to follow me around my favorite local mountain road in his IX. He even spun it once right in front of me on a flat neighborhood street! That same guy absolutely left me in the dust on that corner in his X, so I think it DOES make up for driver inability in a big way. I'm jealous of the S-AWC for sure! Unfortunately I want to play with the SST and pretend like I'm Michael Schumacher, so while I'm waiting for that whole thing to play out, I'll be enjoying my VIII. It should be all prepped and ready to go by this month (Pads are ordered, maintenance is scheduled, braided brake lines are in the trunk waiting to go on, etc.) I wanna see if I can catch PDXEvo out there once to see if I can keep up before he sorts out his X and runs circles around me lol.
EDIT: Also that day I asked a guy from work who was there (Porsche Club instructor) to ride along and give me some pointers. He was not that impressed with the ultimate grip, but he was astonished at how you can trail brake and just toss it into the turns. I tried to be smooth like he was saying to do, but it just resulted in more understeer lol. I guess if you drive a Porsche like an Evo you end up driving backwards...
Last edited by machron1; Mar 7, 2008 at 10:31 PM.
Mar 7, 2008, 08:39 PM
#797
Trail braking takes a bit to get used too, and is a key skill to acquire in the AWD cars. It allows you to brake later, and enter the corner a bit quicker. I had the very great pleasure of having an old Rally driver give me a ride in his VI around PIR, and that was unbelievable. The amount of control he had was just astonishing. He then proceeded to show me how well one could do in the VIII, and took my stock VIII around the track in one of the funnest rides I have ever been on.
Mar 7, 2008, 09:56 PM
#798
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Which, to the ops point, shows how different a car this is than previous generations. The audience for it seems vastly different from the fanboys of old. While we wanted power and performance, the newer buyers are attracted to a pretty interior and safety features--not to mention the much friendlier SST transmission. No, it doesn't take a god to drive a stick, but it is a skill that has to be learned. Just like riding a bike you're going to fall (stall) a few times, and some don't want that hassle.
The reason you see so much "hating" is because we're basically welcoming a whole new crowd to the EvoM site. That crowd has wildly different opinions of what makes a good car, so naturally we're going to have a few clashes.
If you view the poll I created a while back, https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=322051 , you'll see a good majority of Evo X owners are first time buyers. That's really not surprising. Also not surprising is that many VIII owners are upgrading to the X, which makes sense if they have high mileage and want to stick with the Evo name. What you don't see are many (7 as of this posting) jumping from the IX to the X.
So why go on and on criticizing it? Well, it's a message board where discussions are encouraged. Repeating the same types of praise over and over is really no different than posting the same criticisms. It's really nothing to lose sleep over, but don't expect a whole group of Evo lovers to not speak their mind when the 4G63 is tossed aside in favor of an emission-friendly engine.
The reason you see so much "hating" is because we're basically welcoming a whole new crowd to the EvoM site. That crowd has wildly different opinions of what makes a good car, so naturally we're going to have a few clashes.
If you view the poll I created a while back, https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=322051 , you'll see a good majority of Evo X owners are first time buyers. That's really not surprising. Also not surprising is that many VIII owners are upgrading to the X, which makes sense if they have high mileage and want to stick with the Evo name. What you don't see are many (7 as of this posting) jumping from the IX to the X.
So why go on and on criticizing it? Well, it's a message board where discussions are encouraged. Repeating the same types of praise over and over is really no different than posting the same criticisms. It's really nothing to lose sleep over, but don't expect a whole group of Evo lovers to not speak their mind when the 4G63 is tossed aside in favor of an emission-friendly engine.
And you are EXACTLY right, I bought the X because of the safety features and pretty interior...
The majority (not all) of IX owners probably aren't jumping ship quite yet because they still owe more than the car is worth... makes sense to me, I wouldn't want to be upside down on my ride, right?
Too many fallacies and straight up B.S. in this post to comment on, but I hope I am not the only one that sees this, although with 34 pages I imagine that someone has called you on it.
Last edited by CharlesJ; Mar 10, 2008 at 12:10 PM.
Mar 8, 2008, 05:17 AM
#799
Trail braking takes a bit to get used too, and is a key skill to acquire in the AWD cars. It allows you to brake later, and enter the corner a bit quicker. I had the very great pleasure of having an old Rally driver give me a ride in his VI around PIR, and that was unbelievable. The amount of control he had was just astonishing. He then proceeded to show me how well one could do in the VIII, and took my stock VIII around the track in one of the funnest rides I have ever been on.
i would addto that, the AWD car real advantige is the corner exit. But you can defenietly incrase the entry speed with the trailbraking. Better, if you find the threshold on you breaks in the staright away first.
The best results,when actually you can over lap both technics.
Rally drivers tend to be faster in the corner entry
Mar 8, 2008, 05:22 AM
#800
I'm quite offended at the way the Mods are handling my discussions and comments. It's at the point where now I can ONLY post in this thread.
Everyone who doesn't take what I say for face value and reads into it as a means of trying to put down the X (when that's not my intention) is getting old. I didn't get ANY positive feedback from the Mods for posting my exterior impressions (which were quite positive). That just got unnoticed and quickly pushed down the stack of new threads.. It's almost not even worth posting in the X forums any more ..
Everyone who doesn't take what I say for face value and reads into it as a means of trying to put down the X (when that's not my intention) is getting old. I didn't get ANY positive feedback from the Mods for posting my exterior impressions (which were quite positive). That just got unnoticed and quickly pushed down the stack of new threads.. It's almost not even worth posting in the X forums any more ..
Mar 8, 2008, 05:24 AM
#801
oh hey, did you ask an instructor to go with you the first time you brought your evo out? It makes a huge difference to have someone experienced to show you the lines. That, and trying to follow the lines of the cars that are actually faster than you. Using a transponder is also good feedback.
I think your focus at the time should have been more about just learning to drive well. sometimes when I drive on the track, if I pay too much attention to passing other ppl (or getting away from those behind me) I will lose focus and get even slower lap times.
I think your focus at the time should have been more about just learning to drive well. sometimes when I drive on the track, if I pay too much attention to passing other ppl (or getting away from those behind me) I will lose focus and get even slower lap times.
sooner or later if you faster they will do a mistake, or let you go.
Racing = patient
Mar 8, 2008, 06:13 AM
#802
Admin Emeritus
Are you serious? Why in heavens name would we want to protect the X? This is about allowing members who want to discuss their new cars to do so without unnecessary contrary opinion. I have ask the OP to step back for awhile from the forum (with the exception of this thread). That's it.
Speedlimit...
Mar 8, 2008, 06:17 AM
#803
[QUOTE=Speedlimit;5381230]
Are you serious? Why in heavens name would we want to protect the X? This is about allowing members who want to discuss their new cars to do so without unnecessary contrary opinion. I have ask the OP to step back for awhile from the forum (with the exception of this thread). That's it.
Speedlimit...[/QU)TE]
hi did damage that much?
Are you serious? Why in heavens name would we want to protect the X? This is about allowing members who want to discuss their new cars to do so without unnecessary contrary opinion. I have ask the OP to step back for awhile from the forum (with the exception of this thread). That's it.
Speedlimit...[/QU)TE]
hi did damage that much?
Mar 8, 2008, 06:21 AM
#804
Admin Emeritus
[QUOTE=Robevo RS;5381238]
Are you serious? Why in heavens name would we want to protect the X? This is about allowing members who want to discuss their new cars to do so without unnecessary contrary opinion. I have ask the OP to step back for awhile from the forum (with the exception of this thread). That's it.
Speedlimit...[/QU)TE]
hi did damage that much?
What?
Are you serious? Why in heavens name would we want to protect the X? This is about allowing members who want to discuss their new cars to do so without unnecessary contrary opinion. I have ask the OP to step back for awhile from the forum (with the exception of this thread). That's it.
Speedlimit...[/QU)TE]
hi did damage that much?
Mar 8, 2008, 09:56 AM
#805
The problem is BOOSTEZ came out strong on the X immediately, and really got in everyones face. Because of this, he now has a reputation, deserved or not, to always be negative against the X. Especially in threads where he was vocal about being proud of being the original X hater. So, now, even if the passion has died down, he still has the perception to deal with, and that may take a long time to get rid of.
I can tell you in many private conversations with BOOSTEZ, that most everyone is over reacting to his posts. I think if everyone stopped putting a negative connotation on every single post he does, it would be different. Besides, he wouldn't be here if he wasn't somewhat curious about the X
I can tell you in many private conversations with BOOSTEZ, that most everyone is over reacting to his posts. I think if everyone stopped putting a negative connotation on every single post he does, it would be different. Besides, he wouldn't be here if he wasn't somewhat curious about the X
Mar 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
#806
The EBD and to a lesser extent S-ABS, for me anyway, make trail braking easy. i actually had no idea what trail braking was at first, but the car lends itself to it so naturally i had started doing it from the get-go because it seemed to like it. my instructor never mentioned it as a technique. trail braking and if you let the S-ABS kick in JUST a little bit when you are turning in, it helps too. as you can see, i love the small amount of electronic helpers i DO have because they only help me go faster, compared to almost every other system in almost every other car that just tries to slow you down. that's why i am really looking forward to unlocking the secrets of driving fast with the S-AWC and TC-SST. i have a feeling once people start mastering these systems and bumping up the power, they will
be absolutely unstoppable!
be absolutely unstoppable!
Mar 8, 2008, 09:45 PM
#808
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The problem is BOOSTEZ came out strong on the X immediately, and really got in everyones face. Because of this, he now has a reputation, deserved or not, to always be negative against the X. Especially in threads where he was vocal about being proud of being the original X hater. So, now, even if the passion has died down, he still has the perception to deal with, and that may take a long time to get rid of.
I can tell you in many private conversations with BOOSTEZ, that most everyone is over reacting to his posts. I think if everyone stopped putting a negative connotation on every single post he does, it would be different. Besides, he wouldn't be here if he wasn't somewhat curious about the X
I can tell you in many private conversations with BOOSTEZ, that most everyone is over reacting to his posts. I think if everyone stopped putting a negative connotation on every single post he does, it would be different. Besides, he wouldn't be here if he wasn't somewhat curious about the X
Its a good thing I am not gay
