dbsears

iTrader: (37)

Coming from Speed Element himself who is very familiar with these two cars.

Also yes the JSPEC evo does have AYC which helps for the IX. If it were a US spec evo IX it would have been very close. The X does have better real world handling but if it makes a better all around race car is still up for grabs. In a race environment the 7-9's have proven to be pretty much the pinnacle. Like you said its going to take time for the X to catch up. Once certain people start making track cars out of the X's we will see there true performance advantages/disadvantages.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

Is it really that the handling is "better" per se, or more that the car behaves the way they WANT it to? i.e., rear wheel drive cars are preferred in terms of handling, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're the fastest through the corners (depending on the cars).

Even if it handles the way they like, that doesn't mean the car is faster through the corners, in terms of both carrying speed into the corner, as well as the car's ability to pull out of the corner as well. But there is also the case that if the car is handling the way they want it to, a driver is able to drive the car faster, which has been the case for most drivers.
However, it seems to me like the IX was keeping with the X through every corner. It didn't give an inch through the corners, and the gap spreads too far after the X gets passed to really tell the other way around.

And I heard that for tuning cars like these in Japan they always take out the AYC? At least that was one of the arguments for why we didn't need it way back when the Evos first came to America. Something along the lines of that it didn't really help pro drivers, or was even sometimes a hindrance to them.

I dunno, I call it like I see it. HONESTLY, if no one knew of the X's proclaimed handling capabilities, and no one knew what the drivers of Advan were saying, no one would have pointed out the X's supposed handling superiority (IN THIS CASE), not that the handling superiority really seemed to play a role here.

Deepseadiver

iTrader: (3)

In the past I have owned an VIII, IX, and now a X. I was a bit skeptical at frist of the new X, but now I think the X is the best and will continue to be the best!

I have auto-X'ed in the IX and in the X. The EVO X just handles so much better it like night and day. My EVO IX was faster in the 1/4 mile (20G-LT with meth) But with time the EVO X will have more bolt on's, turbo options, and meth kits avaliable.

dbsears

iTrader: (37)

ding ding...hit it square on the nose. Most of the dedicated track car take out most of the electronics. Hell most dont even run ABS. I can even attest to saying 90% of the major time attack and track cars are VIII's and dont even use ACD.

STi2EvoX

Ok, this is getting ridiculous, you 9 guys are looking for reasons to downplay the advantages that the X has to feel better about your own car and it's annoying. I don't downplay the advantages that the 9 has; it's lighter and faster in a straight line, we all know this. The X does handle better though and it isn't just a matter of how the car feels or how it allows it to be driven, it's about a better chassis and the lack of understeer and that, my friends, helps anyone; even the pros.

If you were to ask a professional driver which type of car he would prefer, one that understeers a tad and one that oversteers a tad the answer would be obvious. And to kyooch, if you don't see any corners where the X pulls away then you are blind. There are like 2 or 3 where it puts a big *** gap, but it just isn't enough to secure the win on a track like this that has such long straights. There is even a part in the video where they say that in the medium and high speed turns that the X averaged as much as 5 mph faster through the corners, which is huge.

Don't discredit the X just because you have a 9 and want to feel like it's better, and don't even act like that's not what you are doing. I thought this X bashng crap was over but I guess not. It's just more subtle and passive aggressive now... Lame. I guess I can just resolve to say that it really doesn't matter what any of us think, as DBSears said earlier once the X has been out for a while we will see what it's really capable of and how it truly compares to the 9 in terms of straight line power and speed. The handling argument shouldn't even be a topic of discussion anymore though.

This talk about time attack cars not using electronics and using that as an argument as to why the Xs advantages really don't matter or mean anything is childish. It would be like me trying to bring up the disadvantages of an iron block to make my aluminum block look better and discredit the advantages that the 4g63 has when we all know that iron is better. Now I remember why I have stayed away from these threads...

MrBonus

iTrader: (4)

That is often due to class restrictions and other factors relating to governing bodies, not necessarily because they don't provide an advantage.

Noize

iTrader: (24)

Look at the Best Motoring video entitled The Evo Strikes Back. They have a race with several track modified VIIIs, and there is one car that does not have SAYC. They talk about how much faster the car would be with AYC and that is the primary reason the car is slow.

There are way too many VIII and IX owning bench racers who downplay SAYC and have never experienced it.

The X got crushed in power:weight on that track. It got just vaporized on the straights. I remember my IX stock in a straight line vs. my X stock. It wasn't even close. My IX was substantially faster.

I am not saying an IX is slow or that the X should have a chance of winning. The X chassis is better, and the US car absolutely handles a lot better. But you have to have power to pull all that weight around. IMO, the X is too heavy for a four cylinder. I remember calling Supras fat. The X is heavier than a stupid fat cow Supra, and those have an extra liter of displacement to compensate for it!

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

I don't trust a lot of what Best Motoring has to say.
And I have driven the X, in Japan, as well as a IX with AYC.

I really don't care about the power. In terms of handling, I'm just saying I have yet to see how its benefits have outweighed its costs.

And I'm not 'defending' my car or being passive aggressive or anything else I am to be accused of. I have absolutely no loyalty towards any car, and have been waiting for a chance to switch my own car when the situation and timing are right.

I have reviewed the video, along with a couple of my friends who know nothing detailed of either car, and I guess we all must be blind? There are small differences in the handling dynamic itself, but in terms of the cars speed..? It makes a big difference who is in the front in corners, as wide cars take up space. When two cars are tail to nose, the car behind can only go, at its quickest, just as fast as the car in front of it.

That said I'd like to see the same cars on a different track, not as straight intensive. I'm not saying anything other than questioning the term "handling". It's a hard term to really have a definition for. Mind you, this isn't a stock IX going up against the advan X. You don't know what they've done in terms of suspension set up etc. It's not like the IX's potential in terms of handling is, at its maximum threshold, that much lower than the X's.

In a hypothetical case, for two cars with the exact same engine, chassis, etc. I think I would still take a non SAYC version vs. SAYC + 300 lbs. In real life the X is disadvantaged, for now, or not even now anymore, with less aftermarket development. I will be happy when the day comes where the X shows its outright superiority, trust me. All I'm saying is I'm still waiting for it.

edit: also, STi2EvoX, you don't think a IX can be set up to oversteer? That doesn't mean it's going to be faster than one that is more neutral. You really don't have to be so defensive. I very much respect the X and full expect it to carry the Evolution name through its next generation. I've driven the X and I do prefer how it feels in the corners. But that's all.

Say what you want, I've said my piece. I've driven all three, the US IX, IX with AYC, and X, and my opinion is, at its best, nothing but one man's preference.

Carloverx

iTrader: (26)

lol we just watched a IX crush a X and WE are the one's down playing things?

You say the X "handles better"?? What does that even mean?? It's faster mid corner through particular types of turns? It feels more stable?? It's easier for inexperienced drivers?? “Handling is so much more complex than ppl give it credit for. Maybe the lack of X power makes it seem like it’s faster in the turns or easier to handle.

Furthermore, until it's proven under racing conditions, i'd be hard pressed to say it handles better at all.

Lastly, if speedelemint is right, HP was not that big of a difference between the cars.

IMO, people will stop R&D on the ix and start doing it on the X. The X will then eventually become the race car of choice regardless of it’s inherent abilities (much like the VII did to the VI).

STi2EvoX

Edit: Duplicate Post

STi2EvoX

^The 9 "crushed" the X in the straights, not the turns. The X does handle better, this is proven. Your 9, BTW, doesn't have AYC like the JSPEC one in the video so yours doesn't handle anywhere near as well as the one that you just watched. Second, they even say in the video that the X carries an average of 5 mph faster through the medium and high speed turns so I'd say that's pretty definitive proof. It has a higher level of grip and because of the better chassis and more advanced AWD system it is more controllable and doesn't require mid corner correction like the 9 does. That however, is just the tip of the iceberg.

It also doesn't understeer like the 9 does, and it doesn't bump steer like the 9 does. Do I really need to go on? You can say what you want, but the fact is that the X does handle better than even the JDM spec 9 and WAYYYYYYYY BETTER than your US spec, non ayc equipped 9 does. Answer me this also, why is it that robispec was able to put down a faster lap time with a X with just coilovers and a catback than a fully prepped, turbo back and tuned evo 8? I guess that that doesn't qualify as being "proven under racing conditions to actually handle better." Plus, I guess that the evidence from EVERY SINGLE MAGAZINE THAT HAS TESTED IT SO FAR isn't enough to prove it to you either. I'd be "hard pressed" to say that you are not a fanboy.

dbsears

iTrader: (37)

Terms "bumpsteer" and "understeer" are being spoke of like they cannot be corrected. That has to do with the way the car is factory aligned, springrates, tire psi, etc. Trust me a VIII or IX can be made to oversteer quite easily. I track mine often and have been around X's. The X tends to allow more neutral turn in and has better rotation in tight low speed corners. The weight though creates much more body roll and has a tendecy to be less forgiving at the limit at higher speeds.

Any properly coilovered Evo will not understeer. Ask Robi...I am also aware of the marketing and pushing products out. Until we see numerous head to head test I still am not going to be conclusive of which car handles better. Stockwise yes the X handles better...anybody that tracks is not going to leave there evo's stock though. One or two people stating this better handling are also two of the only people producing coilovers for X's. I would believe what Robi said its just there is very little results as of lately. To trust megazines is quite rediculous. I remember half of them always had the STI win

Another fact is the AYC does do ALOT of correction and allows people to cover up many mistakes making them faster. The X still understeers contrary to what people say just not as much as previous STOCK evos.

Now don't take this is putting the X down. I would buy one in a heartbeat if it weren't for that crap transmission they put in it. I think the X has its place as do the VIII's and IX's. There is no end all of the best evo. The VIII's and IX have proven what they can do. Now its time for the X to prove what it can do. Until then saying the X is better is unconclusive.

rawandbruteEVO

The Jap spec Evo X has less power than the US Evo X. Please take note that Japan's gentlemen agreement is not anymore in effect.

fevo

iTrader: (2)

i started using speed reading from post #16
=D

X is like a 2003 USDM E8 , it is a base/bottom line of the new generation evo
We have praised the E6 , and keeps our mouth shut about the E7 , same will go for E10 , bcoz we all know E11 > E10 , E9>E8>E7

After E11 comes out , I am pretty sure E10 will be the forgettable car like E7

we should see a more agressive MIVEC tunning in E11

Noize

iTrader: (24)

Does that rhyme with running? Most misspelled word on this website by far.

Mivec tuning is adjustable by reflash. Its chain on both sides, and its infinitely variable, so I'm sure the Evo XI will have different areas of improvement. Maybe they can pull some weight out of this sucker, improve transmission shift quality, improve gearing, use a larger turbo, improve quality of interior pieces, include mud flaps standard to protect paint, etc.