Need Help with Talon!!!!
Nov 14, 2008, 04:53 PM
#1
Need Help with Talon!!!!
Hello fellow car enthusiasts. My friends and I have run into a huge problem and wanted some help. First off, I have my friends 1997 Eagle Talon ESI sitting in my garage. The engine is an H420A non-turbo but it has been built and fortified from top to bottom. It has a 20g turbo on it currently and the engine is practically brand new. The car has a Haltech E6X ECU with a 3 bar map sensor and MSD DIS 2 Ignition. It also has an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, and a 255lph fuel pump which turns on electrically.
When my friend brought the car over he said he has gone through about four batteries in a period of one month. He kept returning the battery thinking it was bad but it wasn't. He told me that the battery would start the car and the alternator would hold a charge but if the battery was left intact, then it would ultimately die.
Meanwhile I asked him what that loud sqeak was. He had no idea so we inspected the belts. Sure enough his drive belt was split down the middle. This is where all of our troubles begin. I took the alternator off so I can take his belt off. We replaced it and drove the car around. The noise was gone but all of a sudden the car just stopped down my street.
We pushed it to my garage and let the car sit a bit. Then we went out and started it up. I pulled off the negative cable to the battery and the car would just die. The alternator didn't want to hold a charge. I had my dad come out and take a look at the car. What he found was odd. I always understood that the alternator had a built in voltage regulator but there was an external one from NAPA bolted down to the frame. My dad took it off and inspected it. The coils inside the voltage regulator were busted. We replaced it by another one thinking that was why the alternator wouldn't hold charge. We installed all the wires like they were supposed to be connected and the battery still didn't hold charge and on top of that the fuel pump stays on and doesn't shutoff. At one point the car didn't even want to start anymore.
I haved checked the ground wires on the alternator and the battery. On the negative cable, the fuel pressure regulator and alternator is connected. There are spliced wires in the engine bay and it looks like a complete hack job. The car wasn't tuned when sold to my friend and I tried completing the alternator by-pass test but it wouldn't work because Haltech might be blocking the voltage regulator in the alternator. We have taken the alternator to be tested and it passed flawlessly, no bearing noise or anything. We really don't have any idea what to do with the car anymore. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We are ready to try anything!
When my friend brought the car over he said he has gone through about four batteries in a period of one month. He kept returning the battery thinking it was bad but it wasn't. He told me that the battery would start the car and the alternator would hold a charge but if the battery was left intact, then it would ultimately die.
Meanwhile I asked him what that loud sqeak was. He had no idea so we inspected the belts. Sure enough his drive belt was split down the middle. This is where all of our troubles begin. I took the alternator off so I can take his belt off. We replaced it and drove the car around. The noise was gone but all of a sudden the car just stopped down my street.
We pushed it to my garage and let the car sit a bit. Then we went out and started it up. I pulled off the negative cable to the battery and the car would just die. The alternator didn't want to hold a charge. I had my dad come out and take a look at the car. What he found was odd. I always understood that the alternator had a built in voltage regulator but there was an external one from NAPA bolted down to the frame. My dad took it off and inspected it. The coils inside the voltage regulator were busted. We replaced it by another one thinking that was why the alternator wouldn't hold charge. We installed all the wires like they were supposed to be connected and the battery still didn't hold charge and on top of that the fuel pump stays on and doesn't shutoff. At one point the car didn't even want to start anymore.
I haved checked the ground wires on the alternator and the battery. On the negative cable, the fuel pressure regulator and alternator is connected. There are spliced wires in the engine bay and it looks like a complete hack job. The car wasn't tuned when sold to my friend and I tried completing the alternator by-pass test but it wouldn't work because Haltech might be blocking the voltage regulator in the alternator. We have taken the alternator to be tested and it passed flawlessly, no bearing noise or anything. We really don't have any idea what to do with the car anymore. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We are ready to try anything!
Nov 14, 2008, 07:02 PM
#2
In modern alternators, the voltage regulator and diode pack are inside the alternator and are not serviceable by most DIY's and mechanics. If any one of these parts goes bad, the whole alternator assembly needs to be replaced.
If the voltage produced by the alternator goes above 13.5 - 14.5 volts, the battery will be ruined very quickly. It's the job of the voltage regulator to keep the output voltage between the 13.5 - 14.5 volt range.
You guys already fried a few batteries and it clearly shows a pattern of either lack or charge from the alternator (perhaps belt,bad ground, bad voltage regulator) or in this case it could also be overcharge(voltage regulator).
Your father possibly did a simple test but I am inclined to think you guys aren't running a good oem Alternator and also you are having ground issues and possibly leaks in the wiring.
As per the fuel pump being on after the car is down, that is a wiring issue. The fuel pump is wired for the accesories ignition position, it shouldn't be on once you turn off the key. Have you guys changed tjhe wiring?
I hopeI clarified you some.
Carlos
If the voltage produced by the alternator goes above 13.5 - 14.5 volts, the battery will be ruined very quickly. It's the job of the voltage regulator to keep the output voltage between the 13.5 - 14.5 volt range.
You guys already fried a few batteries and it clearly shows a pattern of either lack or charge from the alternator (perhaps belt,bad ground, bad voltage regulator) or in this case it could also be overcharge(voltage regulator).
Your father possibly did a simple test but I am inclined to think you guys aren't running a good oem Alternator and also you are having ground issues and possibly leaks in the wiring.
As per the fuel pump being on after the car is down, that is a wiring issue. The fuel pump is wired for the accesories ignition position, it shouldn't be on once you turn off the key. Have you guys changed tjhe wiring?
I hopeI clarified you some.
Carlos
Last edited by fromWRXtoEVO; Nov 14, 2008 at 07:07 PM.
Nov 16, 2008, 09:07 AM
#3
Yeah that is odd because when the voltage was checked there was a total output of 12.5 volts and the battery is brand new. I checked the belts and they are all good. Also, another problem I didn't mention is that the external voltage regulator, when the wires are switched around, keeps the car running! I mean I took off the negative cable and the car still ran but when I turn the key to off and pull it out, the car still keeps running. It doesn't shutoff. That allows me to believe that the alternator is still good?
Nov 16, 2008, 09:14 AM
#4
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wait.... you took the key out and the car was still running?? check your ign wires and make sure they are not touching/connected to a 12v. Like said above your fuel pump should be running off the ign wires not a 12v so its not on all the time.
That should get you somewhere first, then the alternator issue sounds like a diode issue, but I would double check. If the that owned it before had a sound system in it and no electrical support for it, then it's a high probability that it is the diodes in the alternator.
That should get you somewhere first, then the alternator issue sounds like a diode issue, but I would double check. If the that owned it before had a sound system in it and no electrical support for it, then it's a high probability that it is the diodes in the alternator.
Nov 16, 2008, 09:30 AM
#5
Yeah the guy had a huge sound system in the car and we took it out including all the wiring. The fuel pump when the key is turned to the on position turns on but the "sound" of it used to go away when we started it. Now the fuel pumps "sound" just stays on but the pump shuts off when we turn the car off. That is, if we can get it to turn off.
Nov 16, 2008, 09:38 PM
#7
So, when the car is running, the alternator is only putting out 12.5v? That's not right and would be a sign of a failing alternator.
Also, does the car have a stock alternator on it, or an aftermarket high output one?
From what I'm reading, I think you should just pick up a new (remanu.) OEM alternator.
Also, does the car have a stock alternator on it, or an aftermarket high output one?
From what I'm reading, I think you should just pick up a new (remanu.) OEM alternator.
