New Supercars, Where Does that Leave the Evo?
Oct 12, 2010, 07:32 PM
#1
New Supercars, Where Does that Leave the Evo?
Well the new 911 turbo does 0-60 in under 3 seconds. 1/4 mile in 10.8 - with the PDK, similar figures still with pure manual. The new Ferrari 458 Italia is an absolute beast with a V8 revving to 9k RPMs, finally surpassing the s2000 in terms of power/liter output - and doesn't even come in manual. The 2012 GTR is supposedly the finished product of the current gen GTR, and will probably produce around 540hp. It can be expected that the car will handle better as well. The current MY ZR1 comes with a "soft" traction control system that various racing drivers have actually gone FASTER with that in fully off mode.
Is it just me, or have supercars taken an enormous leap in terms of reliability, drivability, and SPEED within the last few years? Whereas before the Evo needed just bolt ons, stiffer springs etc. to keep up with supercars they are now reaching power levels that will require built motors, gutted interiors, and coilovers.
Even for non-supercars - where the Evo was once a competitor to the 911 Carreras, it's now probably on par, maybe just barely (if that), with the Cayman S and Boxter Spyder. I'm also willing to bet that even the current gen Mustang GT 5.0 can take an Evo (any evo) stock for stock on any track.
I dunno if I had a point to this post other than damn, supercars are getting fast. it may no longer be possible for us budget-minded speedfreaks to build a "budget supercar." i wouldnt exactly consider it so if i had to have the motor built, car gutted, coilovers, loud as hell all just to keep up with a stock ZR1 with all of its creature comforts still intact.
Is it going to become fact that the only way you can get the speed, reliability, and drivability of a supercar is to get a supercar?
We are reaching an age where - maybe we can still build a budget supercar to have the performance of a supercar - but we can't build one that will have the comfort, livability, and reliability of a supercar at the same time.
The definition of a supercar has improved from a brutally fast car that's hopelessly impractical and unlivable to an even faster car that is practical, daily drivable, will have all sorts of creature comforts and a 5 year powertrain unlimited warranty, or w/e
Is it just me, or have supercars taken an enormous leap in terms of reliability, drivability, and SPEED within the last few years? Whereas before the Evo needed just bolt ons, stiffer springs etc. to keep up with supercars they are now reaching power levels that will require built motors, gutted interiors, and coilovers.
Even for non-supercars - where the Evo was once a competitor to the 911 Carreras, it's now probably on par, maybe just barely (if that), with the Cayman S and Boxter Spyder. I'm also willing to bet that even the current gen Mustang GT 5.0 can take an Evo (any evo) stock for stock on any track.
I dunno if I had a point to this post other than damn, supercars are getting fast. it may no longer be possible for us budget-minded speedfreaks to build a "budget supercar." i wouldnt exactly consider it so if i had to have the motor built, car gutted, coilovers, loud as hell all just to keep up with a stock ZR1 with all of its creature comforts still intact.
Is it going to become fact that the only way you can get the speed, reliability, and drivability of a supercar is to get a supercar?
We are reaching an age where - maybe we can still build a budget supercar to have the performance of a supercar - but we can't build one that will have the comfort, livability, and reliability of a supercar at the same time.
The definition of a supercar has improved from a brutally fast car that's hopelessly impractical and unlivable to an even faster car that is practical, daily drivable, will have all sorts of creature comforts and a 5 year powertrain unlimited warranty, or w/e
Last edited by kyoo; Oct 13, 2010 at 02:33 PM.
Oct 13, 2010, 10:11 AM
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You don't have to sacrifice anything in the Evo to give these cars a whopping, this is a little irrelevant considering you're comparing our turbo 4 cylinder to Twin turbo 6cyl and FI V8's which cost around 2-4X as much as the Evo. I think its incredible that we can still say we can beat all these super cars with a couple mods and still keep our car streetable.
People complain about the Evo being uncomfortable but my mother and my grandmother drove in it for 6 hours straight and actually loved how the Recaro's felt on the highway, yea not as comfortable as a Mercedes or Audi but it won't kill your back. Yes its a little loud but that's part of the charm that the Evo brings.
Full bolt on + FPRed/Black on E85 and you'll beat any of these cars, I don't see the reason for gutting or buying coilovers and this is still an under $15K build which is very reasonably priced considering just an exhaust for a GTR can cost like $5K.
People complain about the Evo being uncomfortable but my mother and my grandmother drove in it for 6 hours straight and actually loved how the Recaro's felt on the highway, yea not as comfortable as a Mercedes or Audi but it won't kill your back. Yes its a little loud but that's part of the charm that the Evo brings.
Full bolt on + FPRed/Black on E85 and you'll beat any of these cars, I don't see the reason for gutting or buying coilovers and this is still an under $15K build which is very reasonably priced considering just an exhaust for a GTR can cost like $5K.
Oct 13, 2010, 10:48 AM
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you also have to remind yourself one thing - if you had the budget and the yearly income to buy a car like the skyline GTR or the ZR1 or the Porsche, or the Lotus Evora you probably would!
most people that own a evo enjoy it becuase it is a tuners car... But it is a very capable car out of the box on a true race track... And it really does not require much in order to take down cars much more expensive.
I know after fully building my car, I wish i would have put some of that money into a different car such as a NSX or something along those lines when I tally up my reciepts, LOL. I still love and respect the evo but if i had the additional income, the evo would not be my starting point.
most people that own a evo enjoy it becuase it is a tuners car... But it is a very capable car out of the box on a true race track... And it really does not require much in order to take down cars much more expensive.
I know after fully building my car, I wish i would have put some of that money into a different car such as a NSX or something along those lines when I tally up my reciepts, LOL. I still love and respect the evo but if i had the additional income, the evo would not be my starting point.
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Oct 13, 2010, 11:00 AM
#8
I think it's normal for a $100k+ supercar to be faster/quicker/better handling than our favorite little 4-cyl rice-rocket. That's what a supercar should be.
To me, the interesting part about this is not that supercars are now noticeably faster than the Evo, but that for a while the Evo was as fast as supercars. Sounds more like the situation returning to "normal" than something to be "concerned" about.
To me, the interesting part about this is not that supercars are now noticeably faster than the Evo, but that for a while the Evo was as fast as supercars. Sounds more like the situation returning to "normal" than something to be "concerned" about.
Oct 13, 2010, 11:00 AM
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I have had 2 evo 7's, and one evo X.
Now I own a 2008 GTR....and let me tell you. In terms of responsiveness to minor modifications, this car is just like the evo.
Of course having 1.8L of displacement over the evo helps but still....with the evo I felt the differences with moderate mods as opposed to how it would idle/run when stock. I could tell it wasn't stock.
With this GTR, I personally can't tell if I've modified it. I'm just under 600whp on the GTR, and all I've got is an exhaust and a tune using VP103 gas. Car behaves 100% in every way just as when it was bone stock. What's impressive is the transmission though. NLTS !! Built in LC and just keep your accelerator pedal floored through all the gears.
No doubt though...for the price...the evo is the BEST bang for the buck and with a couple mods, could really surprise some cars in the highest of the price ranges!
Now I own a 2008 GTR....and let me tell you. In terms of responsiveness to minor modifications, this car is just like the evo.
Of course having 1.8L of displacement over the evo helps but still....with the evo I felt the differences with moderate mods as opposed to how it would idle/run when stock. I could tell it wasn't stock.
With this GTR, I personally can't tell if I've modified it. I'm just under 600whp on the GTR, and all I've got is an exhaust and a tune using VP103 gas. Car behaves 100% in every way just as when it was bone stock. What's impressive is the transmission though. NLTS !! Built in LC and just keep your accelerator pedal floored through all the gears.
No doubt though...for the price...the evo is the BEST bang for the buck and with a couple mods, could really surprise some cars in the highest of the price ranges!
Oct 13, 2010, 11:52 AM
#11
For the technology and amount of power you get in an evo it would nearly be impossible for Mitsubishi to cut anymore corners to bring the price down. Considering you can buy a car for almost $30k that has 1.0g lateral acceleration and almost run 12's out of the box is impressive. They already receive enough complaints about bargain bin interiors.
With supercars you get the stigma and all around package. You get more technology and you achieve a greater sense when driving them. Thats where the price lies. We were fortunate before to have a car that "kept" up with some of the supercars. Now like said before it's returning to normal as it should.
To the people that think whats the point oh couple bolt on's, FP Black, E85, yadda yadda and we will be right there with them. So 10k in mods to keep up with a stock car with warranty and reliability? Lets take a ZR1 put long tubes on it, smaller pulley, and a tune and be damn near 9sec car that can do well over 200mph....on strait ol' pump gas and drive just like stock. Same goes for cars just like the GTR (which imo is considered the "new" bargain benchmark). Evo's can't accomplish those feats without some major sacrifices. 4cyl can only go so far...people just have to face the fact that the grass really is greener on the other side, pending your wallet is big enough to keep up.
With supercars you get the stigma and all around package. You get more technology and you achieve a greater sense when driving them. Thats where the price lies. We were fortunate before to have a car that "kept" up with some of the supercars. Now like said before it's returning to normal as it should.
To the people that think whats the point oh couple bolt on's, FP Black, E85, yadda yadda and we will be right there with them. So 10k in mods to keep up with a stock car with warranty and reliability? Lets take a ZR1 put long tubes on it, smaller pulley, and a tune and be damn near 9sec car that can do well over 200mph....on strait ol' pump gas and drive just like stock. Same goes for cars just like the GTR (which imo is considered the "new" bargain benchmark). Evo's can't accomplish those feats without some major sacrifices. 4cyl can only go so far...people just have to face the fact that the grass really is greener on the other side, pending your wallet is big enough to keep up.
Oct 13, 2010, 12:09 PM
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For the technology and amount of power you get in an evo it would nearly be impossible for Mitsubishi to cut anymore corners to bring the price down. Considering you can buy a car for almost $30k that has 1.0g lateral acceleration and almost run 12's out of the box is impressive. They already receive enough complaints about bargain bin interiors.
With supercars you get the stigma and all around package. You get more technology and you achieve a greater sense when driving them. Thats where the price lies. We were fortunate before to have a car that "kept" up with some of the supercars. Now like said before it's returning to normal as it should.
To the people that think whats the point oh couple bolt on's, FP Black, E85, yadda yadda and we will be right there with them. So 10k in mods to keep up with a stock car with warranty and reliability? Lets take a ZR1 put long tubes on it, smaller pulley, and a tune and be damn near 9sec car that can do well over 200mph....on strait ol' pump gas and drive just like stock. Same goes for cars just like the GTR (which imo is considered the "new" bargain benchmark). Evo's can't accomplish those feats without some major sacrifices. 4cyl can only go so far...people just have to face the fact that the grass really is greener on the other side, pending your wallet is big enough to keep up.
With supercars you get the stigma and all around package. You get more technology and you achieve a greater sense when driving them. Thats where the price lies. We were fortunate before to have a car that "kept" up with some of the supercars. Now like said before it's returning to normal as it should.
To the people that think whats the point oh couple bolt on's, FP Black, E85, yadda yadda and we will be right there with them. So 10k in mods to keep up with a stock car with warranty and reliability? Lets take a ZR1 put long tubes on it, smaller pulley, and a tune and be damn near 9sec car that can do well over 200mph....on strait ol' pump gas and drive just like stock. Same goes for cars just like the GTR (which imo is considered the "new" bargain benchmark). Evo's can't accomplish those feats without some major sacrifices. 4cyl can only go so far...people just have to face the fact that the grass really is greener on the other side, pending your wallet is big enough to keep up.
Oct 13, 2010, 02:07 PM
#14
This comparo is apples to oranges really.....If you took the money it would cost to buy any of the above mentioned cars,deduct the price to purchase an evo...And the mods....The evo is a really amazing car..By no means is it the do all end all car..Its an affordable,easily modded four door sedan.....I couldnt be happier with mine..I have the luxury of running E85 everyday..So i am making great power even on the stock longblock,and turbo..All im saying is be happy with what you have....Porsche 911 turbo is one of my dream cars..But,id never say that its equal to an evo..Justin
Oct 13, 2010, 02:19 PM
#15
Lot of replies, nice
I think most of you guys are getting the gist of what I'm saying. Evo performance hasn't gone down any, but the gap has been increasing bit by bit and, IMO, took a leap within the last year. This gap will take another huge leap when supercars like the Porsche 918 (i think, the hybrid one) and the bmw Efficient dynamics car come out.
Evo is great bang for the buck. A few years ago, it was the BEST bang for the buck. The evo might still be the best bang for the buck now, but in my mind now when I think of the best bang for buck cars I think of the GTR and the ZR1. Porsche 911 turbo, now, if you want basically a baby veyron.
My point is, this is NOT the case anymore. First of all, let's stick to pump gas. Look at the Koeniggsegg - years ago it already had the option to run e85 and picked up a HUGE amount of power from it. Secondly, I don't see how you can run FP Black on a stock motor for long before you are REALLY pushing it's limits - so let's go with FPRed. That won't keep up with a ZR1 - and people will use the age old argument that you can take a used evo throw on 20 grand and it'll be as fast. My point is supercars are reaching a point where before we could have spent 5k for supercar performance. Then 10k. Now 20k, maybe 30k. And with that we'd have to sacrifice livability - noise is one huge area, not to mention road civility.
I think most of you guys are getting the gist of what I'm saying. Evo performance hasn't gone down any, but the gap has been increasing bit by bit and, IMO, took a leap within the last year. This gap will take another huge leap when supercars like the Porsche 918 (i think, the hybrid one) and the bmw Efficient dynamics car come out.
Evo is great bang for the buck. A few years ago, it was the BEST bang for the buck. The evo might still be the best bang for the buck now, but in my mind now when I think of the best bang for buck cars I think of the GTR and the ZR1. Porsche 911 turbo, now, if you want basically a baby veyron.
You don't have to sacrifice anything in the Evo to give these cars a whopping, this is a little irrelevant considering you're comparing our turbo 4 cylinder to Twin turbo 6cyl and FI V8's which cost around 2-4X as much as the Evo. I think its incredible that we can still say we can beat all these super cars with a couple mods and still keep our car streetable.
People complain about the Evo being uncomfortable but my mother and my grandmother drove in it for 6 hours straight and actually loved how the Recaro's felt on the highway, yea not as comfortable as a Mercedes or Audi but it won't kill your back. Yes its a little loud but that's part of the charm that the Evo brings.
Full bolt on + FPRed/Black on E85 and you'll beat any of these cars, I don't see the reason for gutting or buying coilovers and this is still an under $15K build which is very reasonably priced considering just an exhaust for a GTR can cost like $5K.
People complain about the Evo being uncomfortable but my mother and my grandmother drove in it for 6 hours straight and actually loved how the Recaro's felt on the highway, yea not as comfortable as a Mercedes or Audi but it won't kill your back. Yes its a little loud but that's part of the charm that the Evo brings.
Full bolt on + FPRed/Black on E85 and you'll beat any of these cars, I don't see the reason for gutting or buying coilovers and this is still an under $15K build which is very reasonably priced considering just an exhaust for a GTR can cost like $5K.