highlyevolved

The problem is that the media circus was pretending this car was the second coming. It is no more a mini Porsche then a Fiat 500 Abarth is a mini Porsche. All 25k enthusiast oriented cars get a few things right. A Mazdaspeed3 gets speed right. A Mini Cooper gets suspension right. A Fiat 500 Abarth gets character right. A Scion FRS gets a few different things above average.

Nothing more, nothing less. Cars like the Evo and any Porsche or 3 series get things to a level that a 25k car just won't match. Maybe it gets a few different things right compared to the Genesis/Mustang/Mini Cooper/Miata/Abarth, but don't pretend it's something it's not - like a Porsche experience for half the money.

Smike

iTrader: (8)

Oh man. This thing is so far from the 944, Boxter, Cayman feel I didn't even thing about them.

AndyCT9W

I thought it was the Japanese gentlemens agreement not to advertise vehicles with a higher power output than 206kw. (Not in effect any more).

AndyCT9W

Hrmmmm, too much to comment on, just the important stuff then.

1. at the FWD FR-S. I guess FF-S didn't have the same ring to it.

2. ITR = low production? No. I can't drive down a street without seeing the front bumper of one wrapped around a power pole.

3. @Smike, there was a thread about the BRZ or FRS laying down better times than an EVO on a track (willow springs?). I'm not questioning your review or what you know, I'm just interested on what your take on that is.

4. at you guys saying that it's expensive. RRP for the equivalent model over here is going to be around the $45k NZ mark. (New EVO X is $70k+).

And finally my opinion on the vehicle: I'm going to test drive the Toyota GT86 when it hits our shores in the next month or so, you can wait till then.

Piro Fyre

iTrader: (23)

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/wi...of_willow.html
It is indeed faster than the Evo X MR and SE but I'm curious what condition it was when they did the lap times along with who drove what. Obviously, Randy Probst is a very experience driver on Streets of Willow compared to a guy like Roger Yasukawa (drove the X SE) who is a good driver but hasn't won any races or championships throughout his entire career.

Sorry but I personally think it's a little far-fetched that a car like the FR-S is faster than an NSX and even a Ford GT.

Smike

iTrader: (8)

3. X MR and SE both are SSTs right? Heavier and not the best track cars.

I see the Genesis and Mustang faster than this car as well.

Yeah, I agree. GT and NSX are unknowns. I look forward to seeing the Lightning Lap results. I see it being near the Miata.

The results I've seen from NASA events had the FRS/BRZ behind the TTE Miatas. No base class listed yet.

Some guessing on class:

P/W
2758 (FRS MT)/200 = 13.79
-0.2 for under 2850
+0.8 for under 245mm tires
14.39
14.25:1 is TTD

D+7 or D+14 could happen. As a C car its going to have a very very hard fight with S2ks.

lost123

They are classed already
TTD at 2775lbs

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55161

So, in complete stock form they can be run in TTE.
TTD base ties size is 245

215 tires = -7
So, final class is TTE.

What about power to weight.
Several dynojet tests show rwhp is around 160hp. Let's add 10 hp just for a fudge factor.

Minimum comp weight is 2775lbs
P/W = 16.32 to 1 which is TTD until you add in the adjustments.
2775lbs = -0.45
245 or smaller tire = +0.8
Final P/W = 16.67 (16.5 is TTE)

TTE car that is faster than or almost as fast as TTB, TTC and TTD cars.

Smike

iTrader: (8)

Ah, good. Didn't see that announcement.

And I disagree that a TTE car is as fast or faster than a to-the-limit TTB, C, or D car. And you cannot just drop tires and be over P/W.

Dyno re-classed is different that straight up. I 100% recommend doing a dyno re-class for at least seeing if you get more. Us the rules to your advantage.

lost123

It is not over the P/W limit for TTE using 170rwhp, which is more than most stock cars have dynoed at. The limit for TTE is 16.5 and at 170 rwhp it is 16.67. Even when doing a strictly points car, the P/W still has to fall into the class limit whenever checked at the track.

I didn't say it was faster than a to the limit TTB, C or D. Look at the lap times for Streets of Willow, many cars slower than these are base classed B,C and D along with ones that are just slightly faster.

Smike

iTrader: (8)

That's not how p/w works. It's bhp until dyno reclass.

And some of the best TT cars are not the best in stock form (Evo c+14).

lost123

No, that is 100% wrong.

Please read section 6.1.2 of the rules.

The “Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio is calculated using the actual chassis dynamometer
maximum horsepower of the vehicle, the actual, measured post-session minimum competition
weight with driver (not the Minimum Competition Weight listed on the TT Car Classification
Form used for assessing points), and other factors such as body type, transmission type, and tire
type and size. The method used to calculate the “Adjusted” Weight/Power ratio is fully
described in Appendix B (as well as in the Performance Touring Rules). These minimum
“Adjusted” Weight/Power ratios are not a substitute for base classing followed by
calculation of modification points to determine the final competition class. They are an
additional limitation placed on vehicles to help achieve a level platform for competition in each
class.

It is not a requirement for all drivers to submit Dyno testing results, or for that matter, to
have their vehicles Dyno tested before competition. However, each driver/owner is
responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is compliant with the above “Adjusted” Weight/Power
restrictions. If the driver/owner is unsure of the chassis dynamometer maximum horsepower of
the vehicle, or if the car is close to the limit for its class, NASA recommends that the
driver/owner do appropriate testing of the vehicle before competition.

Smike

iTrader: (8)

You should read that closer. You even bolded the good parts.

You cannot make up what you think the power is. Nor can you come to an event and try that. Even with just a dyno sheet (w/o official re-class). P/w + modifiers still does not change.


2775lbs / 200 bhp = 13.88
Under 2850 greater than 2750 = -0.2
Under 245 tires = +0.8
14.48 = D. 14.25:1 is D. Can't go below that. Can't run E just because of smaller tires. You can use that 7 points towards other mods though.

jeremy52048

iTrader: (6)

good review

lost123

You can go below your base class by running smaller tires than your base class. There are several people who have done it. If don't believe me, contact Greg Greenbaum directly.

Actually here is his post on the exact situation.
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic....+tires#p270255


Also Under 2800 greater than 2750 = -0.45 not -0.2

Smike

iTrader: (8)

My math > your math.

Show of hands of actual TT drivers here?
/hand.