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The Loft / EvoM Car Talk CornerThe landing pad for automotive discussions, news, articles, and opinions. A place for the community to kick back and chat.
Ok so I get what you guys keep saying about im going to miss the Evo. I will, there is no question about that. Love the car. What I won't miss - I dumped a ton of money in the Evo, over 10k, probably over 15k. Not going to add it up. My Supra stock is on par with it. After some basic suspension bolt ons, its going to be better than the Evo. Sure it won't come out of a corner like a rocket ship but it will sure come in a lot harder and maintain a higher g load during the turn. The Evo is old rally car technology. It works with some changes but the Supra just handkes awesome out of the box. Honestly, I can't wait to see what it does with proper wheels and tires. That will be soon ish. Kinda long wait time for wheels.
On top of handling, we have to talk about power delivery. Honestly, that's the huge downside of an Evo. Its hard to get power below 4k. If you can get full boost by 3.5k, you either have a stock turbo or a small turbo on a 2.4L. Either way, we are talking about 400/400ish whp on a conservative e85 build. So a powerband from 3500-6500.
The Supra - it makes 380whp stock. And pretty much 380wtq at 1600 rpm. Ya its crazy. Feels like a na car honestly. A tune (aka in 2021 supra terms / jb4 piggy back system) will get you to 450/450 @ the wheels on pump gas.
What I am getting at is if I throw tires and a tune at this thing, it will blow my modified Evo away for a lot less "mod" money. Yes its more up front, but you are also getting a pretty much 0 mile vehicle. 0 miles and Evo don't go together and to some (me) mean a lot. I had 5 miles on it when I picket it up. Knowing its entire history means a lot to me. My evo has had 3 different owners and it shows in some ways. I am happier everyday with my choice.
How's the communication and road feel through the steering wheel and chassis? That was something I couldn't find comparable with other cars when I was shopping for an Evo replacement, so I just ended up buying another Evo. If the Supra has it, that's great news!
I'm hoping it's leagues better than the newer BMW M cars because they are numb as hell.
Thats what its all about right there! Once the happiness fades, its just another cool car.
It should keep me happy for at least a year haha. You never know, I may get tired of the auto trans fast.
Originally Posted by kyoo
us evo folk are very defensive lol
I would say more of stuck in your ways. Haha
Originally Posted by kaj
If operating costs/consumables for the Supra are comparable to the Evo, I see a good argument to switch. HPDE insurance is allegedly more than twice what I pay for my Evo, though.
then I'd have to start worrying about scratching it. I think I keep the Evo out of laziness and ease. I don't even wash it, much less worry about rock chips.
I'll say with 450whp in my Evo, I don't notice any lag (I'm rarely at 1600rpm) but torque is seriously addicting, so.I.see your point there too.
Bottom line is you are happy. Win!
You use your car as a track only car so its a bit different. I am loading miles on this thing everyday. Part of the reason my Evo became a garage queen was because it turned into too much of a race car. Now I have a very civil car on the roads yet its still great on the track (well auto-x so far). The TQ on it is just crazy. You lean into it in 3rd gear from 1100 rpm and it just goes. Just cruising around, it normally shifts at 1500 rpm and there is still power there if you need it.
Originally Posted by razorlab
How's the communication and road feel through the steering wheel and chassis? That was something I couldn't find comparable with other cars when I was shopping for an Evo replacement, so I just ended up buying another Evo. If the Supra has it, that's great news!
I'm hoping it's leagues better than the newer BMW M cars because they are numb as hell.
Thats a tricky question. Its completely different than the Evo for sure. Initial turn in, say from the wheel being at 12 and turning to 1, the Evo wins. But say from 1 to 2, the Supra is quicker. The Supras steering definitely is not as light feeling as the Evo. It has some weight behind it which I like. Feedback is not as good as the Evos. But at the same time, its different. I feel that the closer to the limit you get in the Supra, the harder the wheel is to turn, which the Evo seemed to lack. Either way, you do feel connected to the car. I dont know, its almost like you would have to drive it to understand. Overall, I will say that the Evos steering "feels" better but not by much.
Speaking of how things feel, I do not like the brake pedal. It just feels mushy all the time. I like how solid the Evos pedal feels. Maybe this will change once I go to stainless lines, track pads and good fluid but we will see.
Part of the reason my Evo became a garage queen was because it turned into too much of a race car. Now I have a very civil car on the roads yet its still great on the track (well auto-x so far).
This is key. Happened to me with my 8 and now it has happened a bit with my 10. This is why I was looking at cars that have great performance stock so you can keep them civil. I was VERY close to buying a Camaro ZL1 1LE for this very reason. I ended up not because of the cost but still on the lookout for a car like this.
I'll probably end up with a used Porsche in the next 10 years.
This is key. Happened to me with my 8 and now it has happened a bit with my 10. This is why I was looking at cars that have great performance stock so you can keep them civil. I was VERY close to buying a Camaro ZL1 1LE for this very reason. I ended up not because of the cost but still on the lookout for a car like this.
I'll probably end up with a used Porsche in the next 10 years.
this is what i bought my e92 m3 for. for my particular case though, i didnt want to drive it on the street, wasn't fast enough for track, but solid for autox in FS. ultimately sold it instead of the evo but i did appreciate it very much.
aim now is for a 992 gt3, lol. we'll see where my career leads me
this is what i bought my e92 m3 for. for my particular case though, i didnt want to drive it on the street, wasn't fast enough for track, but solid for autox in FS. ultimately sold it instead of the evo but i did appreciate it very much.
aim now is for a 992 gt3, lol. we'll see where my career leads me
None of the BMWs do anything for me. I also looked at the M2 Comp and was like meh. They feel so synthesized. Sure, they are fast, but fast isn't all to me.
I actually like how my VWs drive more than the BMWs.
I would LOVE a GT4, it's the best feeling Porsche so far to me, by far. They unfortunately are priced accordingly now that everyone knows their potential
my only requirement is a hand pull e-brake on the newer car. That will be so much fun with rear wheel drive car. I would mount hydraulic e-brake. I feel so much safer with e-brake maybe that just me, for owning 240sx for so long with 2 e-brake.
I do love Supra with some of the widebody kits out right now. Maybe one day for me
This is key. Happened to me with my 8 and now it has happened a bit with my 10. This is why I was looking at cars that have great performance stock so you can keep them civil. I was VERY close to buying a Camaro ZL1 1LE for this very reason. I ended up not because of the cost but still on the lookout for a car like this.
I'll probably end up with a used Porsche in the next 10 years.
Be glad you skipped on the ZL1 especially with the 1LE package. My dad has a 2019 and he rarely drives it on the street because of how harsh the ride is. Its by far worse than my Evo with 12/13k springs. It is a truly track ready car though. No mods needed.
Originally Posted by kyoo
this is what i bought my e92 m3 for. for my particular case though, i didnt want to drive it on the street, wasn't fast enough for track, but solid for autox in FS. ultimately sold it instead of the evo but i did appreciate it very much.
aim now is for a 992 gt3, lol. we'll see where my career leads me
Originally Posted by razorlab
None of the BMWs do anything for me. I also looked at the M2 Comp and was like meh. They feel so synthesized. Sure, they are fast, but fast isn't all to me.
I actually like how my VWs drive more than the BMWs.
I would LOVE a GT4, it's the best feeling Porsche so far to me, by far. They unfortunately are priced accordingly now that everyone knows their potential
I would have got a Porsche instead of the Supra if the prices werent so crazy. Maybe one day but for now I have a budget to stick to. On top of their high entry price, there is also the Porsche tax that comes on every single aftermarket part.
Originally Posted by Mivec4G
my only requirement is a hand pull e-brake on the newer car. That will be so much fun with rear wheel drive car. I would mount hydraulic e-brake. I feel so much safer with e-brake maybe that just me, for owning 240sx for so long with 2 e-brake.
I do love Supra with some of the widebody kits out right now. Maybe one day for me
You can still have fun with the electronic e-brake. My kid decided to pull it on me doing 45mph and let me tell you, it works.
I'll say with 450whp in my Evo, I don't notice any lag (I'm rarely at 1600rpm) but torque is seriously addicting, so.I.see your point there too.
Bottom line is you are happy. Win!
Turbo spool is all relative. Modern technology is much better at spooling turbos earlier, not to mention the extra displacement and cylidners in the Supra. Even stock turbo Evos feel laggy relative to what you can get from modern cars.
It's possible to drive around the turbo lag, but it's a different experience.
Putting a slow spooling turbo setup on an Evo seems to be the fastest way to kill enjoyment of the car. The big turbo setups work well on track where you're never below the spool threshold, but they're not fun on the street.
It's too bad that the aftermarket still doesn't have any good variable vane turbo options.
Turbo spool is all relative. Modern technology is much better at spooling turbos earlier, not to mention the extra displacement and cylidners in the Supra. Even stock turbo Evos feel laggy relative to what you can get from modern cars.
It's possible to drive around the turbo lag, but it's a different experience.
Putting a slow spooling turbo setup on an Evo seems to be the fastest way to kill enjoyment of the car. The big turbo setups work well on track where you're never below the spool threshold, but they're not fun on the street.
It's too bad that the aftermarket still doesn't have any good variable vane turbo options.
Spool to me is everything since I do mostly auto-x. There were plenty of times when I was in 2nd gear at like 2500 rpm just waiting for that turbo to spool. Seemed like eternity. Now with the Supra, I feel like I am driving a NA car. Lug it down to 1500 rpm, step on the gas and its gone. Even my beater Cobalt makes full boost by 2000 rpm and still puts down over 300whp (on pump gas at that).
I am sure once I get my Evo back together and take it for a spin, the lag is going to drive me crazy. Its a blast with how hard the boost comes on but fun doesnt always mean good. Even on the track, when boost kicked in around a turn, it was bad. Would light all 4 tires up and pitch the car sideways. Again, this is all about auto-x. Big tracks are completely different when it comes to the powerband.
Turbo spool is all relative. Modern technology is much better at spooling turbos earlier, not to mention the extra displacement and cylidners in the Supra. Even stock turbo Evos feel laggy relative to what you can get from modern cars.
It's possible to drive around the turbo lag, but it's a different experience.
Putting a slow spooling turbo setup on an Evo seems to be the fastest way to kill enjoyment of the car. The big turbo setups work well on track where you're never below the spool threshold, but they're not fun on the street.
It's too bad that the aftermarket still doesn't have any good variable vane turbo options.
If I had $1 for every time I tried to convince someone of this, I wouldn't have to work LOL. People all want giant, forward-facing turbos and 700whp. Then sell the cars a year later
I do track days and AutoX. While I need more power for the track (it's in the works), I am pretty much always at the limit of tire adhesion during my entire AX run. I can't imagine faster spool nor torque helping me at all. I'd have to pedal the car even more. At the track, my RPMs are always up, so I'm good there.. will be even better once I bump up the turbo size a bit . Yeah.. it won't be as fun at AX but that's not my focus with this car. I only do it to keep busy between track days LOL
Ok so I get what you guys keep saying about im going to miss the Evo. I will, there is no question about that. Love the car. What I won't miss - I dumped a ton of money in the Evo, over 10k, probably over 15k. Not going to add it up. My Supra stock is on par with it. After some basic suspension bolt ons, its going to be better than the Evo. Sure it won't come out of a corner like a rocket ship but it will sure come in a lot harder and maintain a higher g load during the turn. The Evo is old rally car technology. It works with some changes but the Supra just handkes awesome out of the box. Honestly, I can't wait to see what it does with proper wheels and tires. That will be soon ish. Kinda long wait time for wheels.
On top of handling, we have to talk about power delivery. Honestly, that's the huge downside of an Evo. Its hard to get power below 4k. If you can get full boost by 3.5k, you either have a stock turbo or a small turbo on a 2.4L. Either way, we are talking about 400/400ish whp on a conservative e85 build. So a powerband from 3500-6500.
The Supra - it makes 380whp stock. And pretty much 380wtq at 1600 rpm. Ya its crazy. Feels like a na car honestly. A tune (aka in 2021 supra terms / jb4 piggy back system) will get you to 450/450 @ the wheels on pump gas.
What I am getting at is if I throw tires and a tune at this thing, it will blow my modified Evo away for a lot less "mod" money. Yes its more up front, but you are also getting a pretty much 0 mile vehicle. 0 miles and Evo don't go together and to some (me) mean a lot. I had 5 miles on it when I picket it up. Knowing its entire history means a lot to me. My evo has had 3 different owners and it shows in some ways. I am happier everyday with my choice.
Lies.
My car "can" (we turned it down) make 43psi at 3700rpm. And makes 615whp, pulls hard to 8000. It's all about the combination. And on track, it's never below 4500 anyways.
My car "can" (we turned it down) make 43psi at 3700rpm. And makes 615whp, pulls hard to 8000. It's all about the combination. And on track, it's never below 4500 anyways.
I will still take my almost lag free 1600-6500rpm powerband over yours, especially for auto-x. Big track, hands down you have the better powerband and obviously more power. But again, I do way more auto-x than big track so the faster the turbo kicks in, the better.
I will still take my almost lag free 1600-6500rpm powerband over yours, especially for auto-x. Big track, hands down you have the better powerband and obviously more power. But again, I do way more auto-x than big track so the faster the turbo kicks in, the better.
Maybe. My local AX courses are really small.. as in "just leave the car in 2nd" small (50ish second runs). Definitely a place where instant power and torque is a plus. The only car to come close to beating me (I'm sure he will and I just got lucky) is this one. I really don't notice any lag. Then again, maybe I just "drive around it". I'm sideways or have to pedal everywhere I can guarantee nobody in a Supra will beat me out there.
Maybe. My local AX courses are really small.. as in "just leave the car in 2nd" small (50ish second runs). Definitely a place where instant power and torque is a plus. The only car to come close to beating me (I'm sure he will and I just got lucky) is this one. I really don't notice any lag. Then again, maybe I just "drive around it". I'm sideways or have to pedal everywhere I can guarantee nobody in a Supra will beat me out there.
Is that a challenge i hear? Here is my next event if you want to sign up and see what the socal boys have to offer. This is actually the 2nd race ever for this new series. I'm excited to try it out since its not just auto-x.
Apr 7, 2021, 05:47 AM
. Yeah.. it won't be as fun at AX but that's not my focus with this car. I only do it to keep busy between track days LOL
