MisterSpoot

They really, really are. Some interesting numbers:

1988 Camry LE (auto) 2811lbs
1992 Camry LE (auto) 3054lbs
1996 Camry LE (auto) 3087lbs
2000 Camry LE (auto) 3120lbs
2003 Camry LE (auto) 3142lbs

1988 BMW 325i (manual) 2895lbs
1992 BMW 325i (manual) 3021lbs
1996 BMW 328i (manual) 3120lbs
2000 BMW 323i (manual) 3153lbs
2003 BMW 325i (manual) 3219lbs

1988 VW Jetta GL (manual) 2305lbs
1992 VW Jetta GL (manual) 2330lbs
1996 VW Jetta GL (manual) 2657lbs
2000 VW Jetta GL 2.0 (manual) 2884lbs
2003 VW Jetta GL 2.0 (manual) 2892lbs

1988 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2138lbs
1992 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2319lbs
1996 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2387lbs
2000 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2410lbs
2003 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2513lbs

1988 Ford Taurus GL (auto) 3063lbs
1992 Ford Taurus GL (auto) 3117lbs
1996 Ford Taurus GL (auto) 3326lbs
2000 Ford Taurus SE (auto) 3368lbs
2003 Ford Taurus SE (auto) 3336lbs

320 - 590lb gains in about 15 years... aside from safety equipment, a lot of crap keeps getting added to our cars. So is it really engineering, or are they simply just adding more? Are cars engineered to be quieter, or are they simply adding more sound-deadening foam. Is it all in the suspension making a better ride, or are the seats simply bigger?

Not to say that there aren't advances in automotive engineering -- there's been many. But I think cars are getting bloated. I say by 2020 at this rate, compacts will be in the 3000-3500lbs range, with mid-size sedans approaching 2 tons. What is this, the 60s?

robertrinaustin

iTrader: (5)

You ought to compare the numbers from today to the gigantic cars from the late 60s and early 70s. You would be suprised how close the weights are.

Diesel

iTrader: (8)

safety construcution adds a lot of weight...

tons more electrical sensors and computers add to the weight...

bigger wheels and tires add to the weight...

more sound deadening adds to the weight...

bigger motors add to the weight...

bigger fuel tanks add to the wieght...

they are getting heavier, but they are also getting better performance, and better gas mileage... amazing huh...?

MisterSpoot

In the above vehicles, engine displacement gains were either minimal, or 0.

As for safety construction... it's interesting. You wouldn't need as much if cars weren't so heavy. You don't need as much to fend off a 2300lb 1988 Jetta GL, as you do to fend off say, a 3150lb 2003 Jetta GLI. That 850lbs at the same speed is going to add a very large amount of force.

Fuel tanks are light. The above weights were unfueled.

One thing that is contributing is cars are getting larger. Always wanting to be the "roomiest in class" always results in the longest and widest cars in their class. They don't say "now harder to park", they just boast their cubic feet of passenger space.

Your "midsize" car of the 60s was about 2 tons. Germany nwill hit those numbers in 5 years, with cars that are considerably smaller, physically. The Japanese will be there in about 15 years I'm hazarding, with Americans in 10.

Better performance, gas milage? If you shaved a few hundred pounds off a car while still maintaining safety and comfort standards, you'd be amazed at how much quicker the car was, nevermind the milage improvements. And handling? Would be that much better.

You realize that after your fill-up at the gas station with your S4, it then weighs in only 30-40lbs under 2 tons? Heavy, no? Not raggin' on the S4 (I wouldn't mind one myself), but it's quite the beast. Makes you think, does it not?

MisterSpoot

And here's a thought... if we really want safe cars, it should be a cage structure based on a tube frame reinforced with gussets. You'd see car fatalities plummet -- considering most collisions occur < 100mph, that would hold up insanely well.

The problem? First, the jaws of life are rendered ineffective, so extraction becomes an issue. Second, injuries to invidiuals who don't feel they need their seatbelts would be exasberated.

And of course, cost and it interfering with styling... though I'd think they could work around that.

MarcioTheGreat

well cars will have to do until we learn to fly.

Diesel

iTrader: (8)

most nimble 2 tons i've ever driven...

loj68

that's why I'm a big fan of the MR2 Spyder.....2100lbs baby!!!

I would I would have kept my 91 CRX-HF......1900lbs. I had an engine swap in that little baby and it ripped!!!! Screw safety....I want light weight and performance. Damn you Volvo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WestSideBilly

iTrader: (1)

1990 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2322lbs L 168.8 W 66.7 H 53.5
1992 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2319lbs L 175.0 W 67.0 H 54.1
1996 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2319lbs L 175.1 W 67.1 H 54.7
2000 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2410lbs L 175.1 W 67.1 H 54.7
2003 Honda Civic LX Sedan (manual) 2513lbs L 174.6 W 67.5 H 56.7

I couldn't find numbers readily for '88. Some of the other cars may have seen more drastic increases in this.

Anyway, the #1 factor for increased weight is increased size (bigger car, bigger wheels, bigger brakes, bigger motors, etc). #2 is feature content - more airbags (debatable value), more electronics (both vehicle level and entertainment), more luxury appointments. They all add weight. The engineering isn't getting worse, though cost outweighs all other factors when it comes to decision time.

WestSideBilly

iTrader: (1)

What happens when you run into a 25,000 lb delivery truck?

MisterSpoot

Then it doesn't matter what you're driving, obviously. If you're hit by that you're just in trouble.

Though I give the German midsizes and full-length saloons some credit, they hold up very well at high speeds.

typeR430

the elise is 1979 =), its a lightsaber...

cool license plate would be 1979LBS

WestSideBilly

iTrader: (1)

Depending on the speed, you'd actually have a fair shot in most modern cars. Of course, when a fully loaded tractor trailer mows you down, you're ****ed!

ru4real

Using the data that MisterSpoot kindly provided, I calculated the average rate at which these cars increase weight.

Average Annual Growth Rate (pounds):

Ford Taurus GL 16.40
BMW 325i 21.63
Camry LE 21.15
VW Jetta 36.85
Honda Civic LX Sedan 25.58

I then extrapolated the data and charted the weight every 3 years. You can see that the Jetta has the highest growth rate and will surpass the BMW after 2024 to become the heaviest car out of the five.

psionic98

iTrader: (1)

Those studies are probably based on the use of construction materials that we use today... theres no way to tell, especially with how technology advances, that in 10 years cars won't be made of more lightweight materials such as titanium/CF etc... and also because of technology advancing so rapidly all of those on board CPUs and sensors will surely become smaller and lighter as the years go on... allbeit it is still a crappy trend to begin with!