SST Operation Explained
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Nov 20, 2007, 01:47 PM
#17
Well lets see. The X is gonna have a DSG auto. The new GTR will have something similar. The new lexus IS-F also will have one. New M3 gets its new "auto" tranny next year. The list goes on and on. All performance cars in the future will have a DSG/SMG style auto trannies. Weather the offer a manual wil be the question.
The new trannies will shift faster then any human can. If you dont know, F1 cars and real race car have DSG/SMG style trannies. I would like my street performance car to be more like a F1 car.
FYI, I believe the GTR and the IS-F will not have a manual option. DSG style auto only.
Nov 20, 2007, 02:51 PM
#18
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IS-F will come with a regular torque converter auto tranny, not a dual clutch automated manual. But I have read in the latest Motor Trend that the IS-F auto tranny is still very nice that can pull off lightning fast shifts.
Nov 20, 2007, 04:52 PM
#20
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First of all, in the US, only about 5% of cars have manual transmissions. I never thought I'd want anything but a manual, but now all I want is DSG. If a lot of past manual buyers are like me, and they are, manuals become almost non-viable for mass production.
I don't understand how, if the SST is going to slip the clutch to provide creep, the clutch isn't going to be gone within 20k miles.
Also,
if you're listening, in "normal" manual mode, please let the transmission upshift at redline. But just in normal, not sport or SS.
I don't understand how, if the SST is going to slip the clutch to provide creep, the clutch isn't going to be gone within 20k miles.
Also,
if you're listening, in "normal" manual mode, please let the transmission upshift at redline. But just in normal, not sport or SS.
Nov 20, 2007, 08:22 PM
#21
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TC-SST or DSG is the future. I'm glad Mitsu is already on board with this. I remember watching the video with Keiichi Tsuchiya (aka Drift King) where they tested/raced same VW cars with one manual and DSG. The DSG was heavier but easily beat the manual which was driven by Tsuchiya. Also, the new Nissan GTR only has it as their tranny option and BMW is developing their version too, not to mention supercars like the Bugatti. Overall, i'm excited with the new TC-SST and can't wait to try one out soon.
Last edited by FLK; Nov 20, 2007 at 08:25 PM.
Nov 21, 2007, 01:28 AM
#22
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I don't know jack **** about cars, but I think readin these post r the funniest, they help me get thru the graveyard shift. Right now I own an IX mr and love the damn thing, it make a s**tty driver like myself feel like I actually knows how to drive. since I rely on the dealer for all my maintainance needs prob won't upgrade until 3 yrs down the road, just b/c its new technology and when stuff breaks and they will, no one is gonna have clue how to fix it. I saw some of the old posts where guys says that the dealer messed up by using the wrong fluids and other stuff. Its just now they finnally getting the hang of things. I'm gonna treat it like a new gaming system at launched date...just wait. Maybe by then I'll have arthritis in my foot and is unable to use the clutch.
Nov 21, 2007, 05:11 AM
#23
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why on earth would anyone want auto upshifts at redline in manual mode? if you want auto shifting put it in "A" drive. if you want auto upshifts at redline put it on S-Sport mode. thank god mitsu leaves manual mode FULLY manual...
Nov 21, 2007, 06:17 AM
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LOL.
Well lets see. The X is gonna have a DSG auto. The new GTR will have something similar. The new lexus IS-F also will have one. New M3 gets its new "auto" tranny next year. The list goes on and on. All performance cars in the future will have a DSG/SMG style auto trannies. Weather the offer a manual wil be the question.
The new trannies will shift faster then any human can. If you dont know, F1 cars and real race car have DSG/SMG style trannies. I would like my street performance car to be more like a F1 car.
FYI, I believe the GTR and the IS-F will not have a manual option. DSG style auto only.
Well lets see. The X is gonna have a DSG auto. The new GTR will have something similar. The new lexus IS-F also will have one. New M3 gets its new "auto" tranny next year. The list goes on and on. All performance cars in the future will have a DSG/SMG style auto trannies. Weather the offer a manual wil be the question.
The new trannies will shift faster then any human can. If you dont know, F1 cars and real race car have DSG/SMG style trannies. I would like my street performance car to be more like a F1 car.
FYI, I believe the GTR and the IS-F will not have a manual option. DSG style auto only.
That said, if I were to make an Evo my daily driver, I would give serious consideration to a sequential manual for practical purposes.
Nov 21, 2007, 08:17 AM
#25
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that's cuz an electronically controlled clutch is WAAAY more precise than your left foot. if it has a 5 yr drivetrain warranty, then who really cares right? dealer can't say the driver is to blame either...
why on earth would anyone want auto upshifts at redline in manual mode? if you want auto shifting put it in "A" drive. if you want auto upshifts at redline put it on S-Sport mode. thank god mitsu leaves manual mode FULLY manual...
why on earth would anyone want auto upshifts at redline in manual mode? if you want auto shifting put it in "A" drive. if you want auto upshifts at redline put it on S-Sport mode. thank god mitsu leaves manual mode FULLY manual...
I've actually owned a DSG car, a 2006 VW GLI, and I can tell you that I appreciated it upshifting for me even in manual mode most of the time. In that car, the DSG actually revved the engine significantly beyond the redline before shifting for me! Obviously, the Evo is a much more serious sports car than my GLI was so there definitely needs to be a mode that is truly FULL manual with no upshifting in the Evo, but the TC-SST has 3 modes and I don't see why, in just the "normal" mode, the transmission shouldn't shift at redline. People like you can put it into "Sport" or "SS" and get that tiny drop more of control you seek.
Nov 21, 2007, 12:55 PM
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So it's doing precision clutch slip while my mom sits facing slightly uphill without her foot on the brake at a long red light and because it's so precise the clutch won't wear out?
I've actually owned a DSG car, a 2006 VW GLI, and I can tell you that I appreciated it upshifting for me even in manual mode most of the time. In that car, the DSG actually revved the engine significantly beyond the redline before shifting for me! Obviously, the Evo is a much more serious sports car than my GLI was so there definitely needs to be a mode that is truly FULL manual with no upshifting in the Evo, but the TC-SST has 3 modes and I don't see why, in just the "normal" mode, the transmission shouldn't shift at redline. People like you can put it into "Sport" or "SS" and get that tiny drop more of control you seek.
I've actually owned a DSG car, a 2006 VW GLI, and I can tell you that I appreciated it upshifting for me even in manual mode most of the time. In that car, the DSG actually revved the engine significantly beyond the redline before shifting for me! Obviously, the Evo is a much more serious sports car than my GLI was so there definitely needs to be a mode that is truly FULL manual with no upshifting in the Evo, but the TC-SST has 3 modes and I don't see why, in just the "normal" mode, the transmission shouldn't shift at redline. People like you can put it into "Sport" or "SS" and get that tiny drop more of control you seek.
so if you want it to upshift for you why are you putting it in manual mode? that's the part that doesn't make sense. if you want it to automatically shift at redline then put it in auto mode and select the S-Sport mode. this will hold the gear and auto upshift only at redline. do you want manual control everywhere else except auto upshift at redline? most enthusiasts would go crazy at that thought...we wanna bounce off redline all day if we want to. no electronic nannies to hold us back...
Nov 24, 2007, 01:56 PM
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Nov 24, 2007, 02:10 PM
#28
no it will not it uses a DSG style gearbox 8 speeds!! http://www.lexus.com/isf/isf/specs.html
Nov 24, 2007, 02:24 PM
#29
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Amazing stuff.
"The TC-SST of course has been designed to work with the Lancer Evolution MR's dynamic handling systems. In any of the three drive modes, the TCM continuously take input from engine operating parameters, including engine speed and torque, as well as information from the Super-All-Wheel Control system. The driver can expect, therefore, that the TC-SST will select the best gear for any given cornering situation."
I think that answers a few questions about the tuning potential of the SST. Like I've said before - it shouldn't matter what kind of mod you are throwing at the X, as long as the ECU is tuned and can take advantage of it, the SST will respond accordingly because shift patterns are dictated by ECU parameters, not directly by the mod.
So the SST is very adaptable in a wide power range. All that remains is how high that range can go / what amount of torque it can sustain reliably.
"The TC-SST of course has been designed to work with the Lancer Evolution MR's dynamic handling systems. In any of the three drive modes, the TCM continuously take input from engine operating parameters, including engine speed and torque, as well as information from the Super-All-Wheel Control system. The driver can expect, therefore, that the TC-SST will select the best gear for any given cornering situation."
I think that answers a few questions about the tuning potential of the SST. Like I've said before - it shouldn't matter what kind of mod you are throwing at the X, as long as the ECU is tuned and can take advantage of it, the SST will respond accordingly because shift patterns are dictated by ECU parameters, not directly by the mod.
So the SST is very adaptable in a wide power range. All that remains is how high that range can go / what amount of torque it can sustain reliably.
But the transmission is dictating its shifts based on data it is requesting from a variety of sensors, not just a concrete program that dictates when its supposed to shift, so modifying the car shouldn't be an issue.....
UNTIL! The maximum output of the tranny is reached. Considering VW's tranny is fairly weak by comparison, and USDM Evo's have had a history of so/so tranny performance, hopefully they have built a nice, beefy tranny for the X.
The weight dictates so! HAHAHA.
Great post, great find.
Nov 24, 2007, 02:33 PM
#30
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no it will not it uses a DSG style gearbox 8 speeds!! http://www.lexus.com/isf/isf/specs.html
Check your facts. The 8-speed tranny is still a torque converter slush box albeit a very good one. Here's some examples.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2008-lexus-is-f.html
Originally Posted by LeftLaneNews
A new torque-converter lock-up control was developed that allows for a direct, crisp gear change through the constant lock-up of the torque converter in second through eighth gears.
In Drive mode, the IS-F transmission performs smoothly, and the torque converter allows for quick 0-60 acceleration in less than 4.9 seconds. The transmission also features a manual mode operated via a pair of paddles.
In Drive mode, the IS-F transmission performs smoothly, and the torque converter allows for quick 0-60 acceleration in less than 4.9 seconds. The transmission also features a manual mode operated via a pair of paddles.
Originally Posted by Car and Driver
The engine is teamed with a modified version of the LS460’s eight-speed automatic transmission with paddle shifters and a torque converter revised for quicker shifts and rev-matched downshifts.