Ralliart Lancer shift behaviour questions
Oct 29, 2010, 06:44 AM
#1
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Ralliart Lancer shift behaviour questions
I've had a few TC-SST gearshifts that have felt a little unusual - just thought I would inquire with other owners who have this transmission.
First off, some background. Near-stock RA, but with boostpill and matching ECU flash maps... so has around 15% more torque and power than factory tune.
Gearshift Q1
When changing from 1st to 2nd at WOT in NORMAL/MANUAL mode, the revs can flare. 2nd gear doesn't grab hard.
Doesn't seem to ever happen in SPORT mode.
My question: Am I imagining things? Or does NORMAL mode use reduced clutch pressure and/or "smoother" engagement compared to SPORT mode?
A sensible person could say that WOT 1st -> 2nd shifts with higher boost could possibly warrant selecting SPORT mode!
Gearshift Q2
In SPORT / MANUAL mode.
Downshifting 4->3->2 approaching corner. Turn-in at 30km/h.
On one-third throttle out of corner, up to approx. 4400rpm, and select 3rd.
Revs flare rapidly/momentarily to 4600, then settle back down where they belong in 3rd gear.
I have logs. And because I have logs, I'll regurgitate them!
My question: Could this brief flare-up simply be the TC-SST getting caught with its pants down, having previously pre-selected 1st gear on the "odd" input shaft? I was in sport mode, after all, so it could have planned ahead when braking to 30km/h in 2nd... and with me only using 1/3 throttle thereafter, I'm wondering if it simply didn't get the memo that an upshift was coming.
Is this likely to be how it works? Can you get a brief rev flare as it gets its shifting ready?
Boy, this transmission is an interesting beast. Life was so simple when I stuffed up my own manual gearshifts - I never wondered why graunching synchro noises happened here or there! :P
Rich
First off, some background. Near-stock RA, but with boostpill and matching ECU flash maps... so has around 15% more torque and power than factory tune.
Gearshift Q1
When changing from 1st to 2nd at WOT in NORMAL/MANUAL mode, the revs can flare. 2nd gear doesn't grab hard.
Doesn't seem to ever happen in SPORT mode.
My question: Am I imagining things? Or does NORMAL mode use reduced clutch pressure and/or "smoother" engagement compared to SPORT mode?
A sensible person could say that WOT 1st -> 2nd shifts with higher boost could possibly warrant selecting SPORT mode!
Gearshift Q2
In SPORT / MANUAL mode.
Downshifting 4->3->2 approaching corner. Turn-in at 30km/h.
On one-third throttle out of corner, up to approx. 4400rpm, and select 3rd.
Revs flare rapidly/momentarily to 4600, then settle back down where they belong in 3rd gear.
I have logs. And because I have logs, I'll regurgitate them!
Code:
Time RPM PSIG Load TPS 4.98 3500 6.35 122 34 5.05 3531 7.12 126 34 5.13 3625 7.36 128 34 5.20 3656 7.70 130 34 5.28 3719 7.65 130 34 5.35 3813 7.60 131 34 5.43 3875 7.41 130 34 5.50 3938 7.17 129 34 5.58 4031 6.93 128 34 5.65 4063 6.78 126 34 5.73 4125 6.73 125 34 5.80 4188 6.54 124 34 5.88 4250 6.35 123 34 5.95 4313 6.15 123 34 6.03 4406 6.10 122 34 6.10 4438 6.06 121 34 6.18 4594 5.91 120 34 6.25 4625 5.77 120 34 <- Peak RPM in 2nd gear. 6.33 4281 6.35 122 33 <- RPM now decreasing. 6.40 3938 6.93 123 34 6.48 3750 7.65 126 34 6.55 3688 7.99 128 33 6.63 3656 7.70 127 33 6.70 3656 7.36 125 32 6.78 3656 6.83 123 31 6.85 3719 5.67 118 30 <- Acceleration in 3rd from here 6.93 3969 3.88 106 29
My question: Could this brief flare-up simply be the TC-SST getting caught with its pants down, having previously pre-selected 1st gear on the "odd" input shaft? I was in sport mode, after all, so it could have planned ahead when braking to 30km/h in 2nd... and with me only using 1/3 throttle thereafter, I'm wondering if it simply didn't get the memo that an upshift was coming.
Is this likely to be how it works? Can you get a brief rev flare as it gets its shifting ready?
Boy, this transmission is an interesting beast. Life was so simple when I stuffed up my own manual gearshifts - I never wondered why graunching synchro noises happened here or there! :P
Rich
Oct 29, 2010, 10:29 AM
#2
Evolving Member
i dont have tons of input into your questions... but give this a read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox.. i find it performs very similar.. i know its for a VW but i learned a fair bit from this and how the sst works, when i first got my X MR it did weird things that i now know are normal..
sorry i couldnt be more specific
sorry i couldnt be more specific
Oct 29, 2010, 02:10 PM
#3
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mass
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On your first question, my understanding is that in sport mode it will engage the second clutch faster than in normal mode, which would mean you'd be slipping the clutch in when you're driving aggressively and let is shift on normal mode.
As good as I've found this tranny is at predicting what the right thing to do with the clutch is... I often wish it could do what I would typically do if I had a regular clutch.
As good as I've found this tranny is at predicting what the right thing to do with the clutch is... I often wish it could do what I would typically do if I had a regular clutch.
Oct 29, 2010, 02:32 PM
#4
Account Disabled
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hayward
Posts: 3,366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Richard you are running the GST Base Map correct?
If so I would love you to do some testing for me. I think I know what your "issue" is.
Also, just FYI:
1st = OddClutch
2nd = EvenClutch
3rd = OddClutch
4th = EvenClutch
5th = OddClutch
6th = EvenClutch
Clutch pressure usually increase as the gears increase, as do temps.
Another good thing to know are that the Even/odd clutches get a rest when they are not in use, which shows on heat shedding on the unused clutch.
- Bryan
If so I would love you to do some testing for me. I think I know what your "issue" is.
Also, just FYI:
1st = OddClutch
2nd = EvenClutch
3rd = OddClutch
4th = EvenClutch
5th = OddClutch
6th = EvenClutch
Clutch pressure usually increase as the gears increase, as do temps.
Another good thing to know are that the Even/odd clutches get a rest when they are not in use, which shows on heat shedding on the unused clutch.
- Bryan
Last edited by GST Motorsports; Oct 29, 2010 at 02:35 PM.
Oct 29, 2010, 03:53 PM
#5
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: southeast wi
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so bryan by saying the the clutches get a rest should you not stay in the same gear for long periods of time if you dont have to? and are you also saying that your transmission runs hotter at 35 mph in 6th gear than for say driving in 3rd or 4th gear at 3-4k rpms
Oct 29, 2010, 04:10 PM
#6
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Hi Bryan.
Yes, I'm running GST Base Map - Boost pill V2 93oct (53610010).
I'll PM you.
Rich
PS. I was actually preparing to drop the above questions into the "RA / GST Basemap" thread, but thought I wouldn't bother you until I'd pulled together a bit more background info on what was "typical" for TC-SST.
Oct 29, 2010, 04:42 PM
#7
Account Disabled
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hayward
Posts: 3,366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
- Bryan
Trending Topics
Oct 31, 2010, 02:24 PM
#8
Evolving Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada,montreal
Posts: 388
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rich,
for your first question its simple "normal mode "
it makes it better for a DD, less shock,
i cant remember where i was reading that but getrag actully made the shifting to feel hard on sport mode and s-sport for the evo, so it can feel more agressive lol...
not really sure why ..
for your first question its simple "normal mode "
it makes it better for a DD, less shock,
i cant remember where i was reading that but getrag actully made the shifting to feel hard on sport mode and s-sport for the evo, so it can feel more agressive lol...
not really sure why ..
Oct 31, 2010, 09:15 PM
#9
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
rich,
for your first question its simple "normal mode "
it makes it better for a DD, less shock,
i cant remember where i was reading that but getrag actully made the shifting to feel hard on sport mode and s-sport for the evo, so it can feel more agressive lol...
not really sure why ..
for your first question its simple "normal mode "
it makes it better for a DD, less shock,
i cant remember where i was reading that but getrag actully made the shifting to feel hard on sport mode and s-sport for the evo, so it can feel more agressive lol...
not really sure why ..
Rich
* Hoon is an Australian expression. Sort of means "petrolhead".
Dec 13, 2010, 08:07 PM
#10
Evolving Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Richard - did you make any progress on this? I'm making 190KW/260HP ATW and I've been slipping since running GST V1. Now that I have a custom tune, I really need to get this sorted. Seems like not many tuners have figured out the SST...
Dec 22, 2010, 06:45 PM
#11
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Not really. I just switch into SPORT mode as soon as I start the car. There's still the occasional rev flare changing around 4500rpm, but it's very rare.
I'm content to leave this issue pending for now, as I suspect Brian won't be able to resist poking at this area in the near future (if he isn't alrady).
In the meantime, I have plenty of other stuff to do and learn with this car - finally got my wideband working. SST stuff can wait...
Rich
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Fatalwishes
Mitsubishi TC-SST Discussion
4
Apr 20, 2010 11:32 AM
EvoDan2004
Northeast Region
66
Apr 13, 2010 01:46 PM
