Deetz

iTrader: (1)

I just had an alignment done at my dealership, and they did a lousy job. I asked for -1.5 camber front and -1.0 rear, with factory spec toe and caster, but they weren't able to dial it in any better than the results below. Oh -and is positive toe toe-in or toe-out?


I don't have much EVO experience, but this seems bad. results:
front L/R
-1.5 / -1.2 camber
3.0 / 3.2 caster
.01 / .01 toe
rear
-1.2 / -1.0 camber
0.15 / 0.15 toe

I it that hard to get L/R even? Can you not dial it in any better? Do I need to have them redo it? They said camber and caster really can't be adjusted?

What are factory specs for camber/caster/toe?

I'm looking for a Street/DE compromise, and am thinking about camber plates - if it is that tough to align. What is a good DE setup?

Thanks,
Deetz.

992gnt

iTrader: (5)

It depends on how much time the Tech spends on getting it right. Caster is not adjustable, and front camber is limited to how much slop there is in the holes. Did you have them flip the eccentric camber bolt around on the fronts? The top bolt is supposed to be able to give around 1* negative camber on one setting and 2* on the other. I was never able to get more than 1.7* on mine before switching to coilovers. My current setup is a little hairy on the street, especially on grooved roads (it tends to tramline a LOT). Positive toe is toe-out.

front
-2.5/-2.5 camber
0 toe

rear
-1.0/-1.0 camber (trying the Mark Daddio less is more theory )
0 toe

I'm far from a suspension expert, but these settings did really well at Putnam last fall (1:23's on r compounds, ds2500's, JIC's, rear sway bar, and minimal power mods), and help to rotate the car really well during auto-x. There is a really good alignment shop in Cleveland that I'm trying to track down the name of (I'm originally from that area). when I get it, I'll pass it along. You should be able to get better numbers than that.

jbrennen

iTrader: (1)

Actually, the shop didn't do all that bad a job... I've heard of Evos coming off the dealer lot much further from spec.

It's true that front camber and caster are not "adjustable"... Like 992gnt said, you can play around with the "slop" in the bolt holes, and you can flip the eccentric bolts to get more camber, but if the L & R are mismatched by a few tenths of a degree, there is no way to "balance" the alignment L to R with the stock hardware. Camber plates would give you true adjustability.

The toe specs you showed are pretty good, for factory specs. However, the factory specs call for a ton of rear toe-in which is nice and safe, but does contribute to understeer. I've been running zero rear toe for 1 1/2 years, for autoX competition, HPDE, street driving, in the snow, etc., and the car has never had any propensity to unexpected oversteer. (In about 80 minutes of track time at Summit Point, the rear end got loose only once, on an off-camber corner in the rain, and it was easily recovered.) Plus, your tires will last longer with zero rear toe.

Definitely, they should have been able to balance the rear camber L to R.

umiami80

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but as soon as you sit in the car it'll go off even more!!!

Here are my settings:

I have coilovers but retain the stock alignment use, this setup can be done on ANY Evo.

FRONT LEFT RIGHT

Camber -1.8 -1.6
Cross Camber -0.2
Caster 2.8 3.1
Cross Caster -0.3
Toe 0.01” 0.01”
Total Toe 0.02”
Set Back 0.13


REAR LEFT RIGHT
Camber -1.2 -1.0
Toe 0.01” 0.00”
Total Toe 0.01”
Thrust Angle 0.01”

Total Weight BTW for my Evo is only 3135 Pounds.

Deetz

iTrader: (1)

I thought that we could do better than +/- 0.3 on the camber. Also, the car now tracks right, and doesn't feel as planted as it did before (maybe the total rear toe out of 0.3)

I always shot for toe out in front to help turn-in, and toe in rear to help rotation. Sound reasonable?

So to get any *real* adjustability, is there any alternative other than camber plates? Is the camber eccentric flush on one side - or can there be adjustment if we made new ones? What about elongating the slots?

992gnt: Thanks - I look forward to the tip for the alignment shop - If it's Steinel's, I recently had a bad experience - recommend other beware also - so I don't think I'm going back too soon to them.

Thank gang,

Deetz.

992gnt

iTrader: (5)

No problem. There are 2 shops depending on your location. First there is Galati's on Lorain Rd in North Olmsted. The second is The Alinement Shop (yes, it's spelled like that) on West Avenue in Tallmadge. I've been to the shop in Tallmadge before, very good work. Galati's comes pretty highly recommended too, especially since 'Galati' is Michael Galati, the multi-time Speed World Challenge champ.

As for the front camber bolts, the adjustment is just an offset oval just under the bolt head. The cheapest way to get more adjustability is to slot the holes in the struts. Past that, I think a few people have had luck installing camber plates on the stock struts. Try a search in the Wheel and Tire forum.

plokivos

iTrader: (3)

that looks about right.

you could have some more camber up front. for 2 degree or 3 even. 3 degrees, you have to change your rear.


and less toe, to like 1/32..

this is for a track setting right?

mayhem

iTrader: (9)

Jeebus! My alignment was jacked. I went and had my first alignment today. Don't know why I waited so long, but my tires seemed to wear better than most so I never thought anything was wrong. At least I ended up with good results AFTERWARDS. Pay attention to the rear toe.
BEFORE
L | R
(front) ______________ (rear)
-0.32 | -0.86__ camber__ -1.01 | -1.48
0.03 | -0.08__ toe______ -0.04 | 0.14
AFTER
(front) _______________ (rear)
L | R
-1.57 | -2.00_ camber____ -1.48 | -1.61
0.02 | 0.02 ___toe________ 0.09 | 0.10

Yeah, that's right. I had one rear tire with toe out and the other with toe IN. I also can't believe how little negative camber there was up front. Measurements and adjustments were done with 150 lbs of weight in the drivers seat.

I try out the new settings at Putnam next weekend. Already the steering feels lighter. That seems like a strange thing, but it really does take less force to turn the wheel now during daily driving. Must be the new toe settings.

This was all done with complete factory suspension parts.

fostytou

iTrader: (15)

Digging this up from the dead, are 2 and 5 the bolt that everyone is talking about?



By "flip" do you all just mean "rotate" or do you actually have to flip which side is the head and which is the nut?

jbrennen

iTrader: (1)

Those bolts (2 and 5) are the fairly conventional alignment adjustment bolts for the rear end.

I suspect you're asking about the eccentric bolts which attach the front struts to the knuckles. Those have two settings, which are achieved by removing the bolt, turning it 180 degrees and reinserting it.

fostytou

iTrader: (15)

I don't know what I was thinking when I edited and posted that . Big dur moment now that I actually look at it.

I can't believe its actually right in the FSM *facepalm*




Thanks for the pointer!