boomn29

iTrader: (47)

I ran these last year and liked them. All full thickness; they were very off/on - but I think that's in large part because they were my first set of track-only pads. After properly bedding them in and getting used to the pedal feel (1 day) I had total confidence in them. I ran them on my stock rotors and they still look/feel good.

I think I got 6 total track days out of them (5 dry; 1 wet). Probably longer if I'd had some brake cooling ducts. (will for 08).

redvolution

iTrader: (3)

I didn't experience an on-off characteristic with them. To each his own I suppose.

I've heard the PFC01 dust is somewhat harder to remove than the DTC60's very-easy-to-remove dust.

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

I'm surprised so many are calling these an on/off pad. I've run them with street tires and no ABS and had no trouble modulating and threshold braking with them. If you are coming from a less aggressive pad, you might just be using too much initial pedal pressure? I also found the dust a breeze to remove.

stuntman

From Hawk:
DTCs have a "rising torque" characteristic.
The torque of the pad (how it slows the car down) rises as the temp of the pad material rises.

After a long braking zone where the pads are hot, if you brush the brakes they grab very hard with light pressure (pads still hot),
After a few corners when the pads cool off -brush the brakes again with the same effort and they don't bite nearly as hard -due to its torque rise characteristic, lower pad temp = lower bite.


I'm still surprised that someone liked the release characteristics of the DTC because IMO they have a pretty bad release characteristics especially when hot, not much room for modulation.


-This was on a Grand Am ST car.

Galant VR-4 #34

iTrader: (4)

I run the dtc 70s up front and have no release issues and they are very easy to modulate. I find the on off of the pfs harder to do so. The PFs have more initial bite for sure but the dtcs seem much more linear. I also tend to crumble the 01s off my car, then they score the heck out of my rotors. The dtcs hang in there the whole race and are much more rotor friendly. Also run SRF brake fluid
Marty

stuntman

PFC's less linear and DTC's have better brake modulation
-sounds a little backwards to me.

PFC01s do have more initial bite but they're great to modulate due to their flat torque curve (torque vs. temp graph). DTCs have a lower initial bite due to their characteristic, and pretty much regardless of your pedal pressure/application, they tend to do the same thing each time -IMO it takes your application and throws it out the window -the torque changes due to temperature and not by pedal pressure/application.

Galant VR-4 #34

iTrader: (4)

My brakes are always hot so maybe Im not seeing the difference in temps/torque you are talking about. Personally, I drag the brakes quite a bit on the pace lap to get them up to temp. In my experience, with dtc's if I want a little braking, I push a little on the pedal, if I want more I push more, if I want everything she can give I push it all the way. In my experience with the PFs, they are too grabby upon initial push and hard to modulate to get just the right amount. I do a lot of trail braking to get my T2 evo to turn so I need a nice linear feel, I just dont get that with the PFs compared to the DTCs. Also, ill repeat that I crumble the PFs off the car in one race if it is a course thats tough on brakes so they are not even a viable option. I have stock rotors, calipers over 3500 pounds to haul down and im in the 340 whp range.
picture of my calipers https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...5&d=1170985336

picture of my rotor https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...2&d=1172631366
Marty

marksae

iTrader: (12)

Dayum! They're not even brownbos. They're blackbos!

stuntman

So your brakes are always at 700-1,300*F, even on the straights? Brakes can shed hundreds of degrees on even a small straight (especially when ducted).

We had a temperature sensor in the pads and saw 1,300*F drop to less than 400*F at Mid-O, and then fluctuate through the esses slowly dropping until it thunder alley/valley (whatever its called) -as the temperature dropped that 900 degrees, the torque changed with it.

0.02

Galant VR-4 #34

iTrader: (4)

I told you what I think of the pads period. No I did not have a sensor to measure the temps through every segment of the track. Just curious, please tell me about the car you are driving when you were taking these measurements. This year at the runoffs Hawks had 38 cars on the podium, most on dtc's, the number two pad had 10 podiums. I have no bias towards hawk but a lot of people including Me, think they work pretty darn well. If you dont like them, then dont use them! But please do not lecture Me on my opinion.
Marty

I do agree with this statement from Hawk DTC-70 Extremely high torque with aggressive controllable initial bite. Superior release and torque control characteristics. Brake pads designed for cars with high deceleration rates with or without down force. and DTC-70
All heavy, high deceleration Sports car, Trans AM, and GT classes where aggressive but very controllable initial bite is desired.

SCCA National Champions 2007 on Hawk Pads.

Class Winner Car
Show Room Stock- C John Heinricy #32
Formula Mazda James Goughary Jr #72
S2000 John Fergus II #0
H- Production Tom Feller #71
T-3 Robert Huffmaster #27
T-2 Don Knowles #35
F- Production Jesse Prather #1
A- Sedan Andrew McDermid #24
SRF Mike Miserendino #11
T-1 Andrew Aquilante #36
GTL Christopher Bovis #18
Spec Miata Brad Rampelberg #4
DSR J.R. Osborne #83

stuntman

And I gave you mine. You gave me input on different aspects and I gave you mine.

Anyways it was on Koni Challenge ST Acura TSX. The measurements (and rig) was setup by the technical director at Hawk for us.

I don't think they suck, their characteristics are useful for many applications, and they're not difficult to drive on. I simply disagreed with one aspect (the release characteristics) but other than that, they are a good option for many people.

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

I love quoting myself in threads....

Just wanted to FYI people that the Hawk DTC60's right now are coming in cheaper than they were last year. They're cheaper than PFC01's and the DTC70's - not sure why; but good news for those that like them.

Order my DTC60's; I'll report back in mid-April.

marksae

iTrader: (12)

How much cheaper are they now?

redvolution

iTrader: (3)

if you're a NASA member porterfield will give you a good discount

inslowoutfast

iTrader: (8)

Kyle at hotlapmotorsports has always given me the best price on HT & DTC pads regardless of any nasa discount other vendors have offered. Definitely shoot him a pm.