Interested in hearing input from you TTA guys...
Nov 19, 2006, 12:43 PM
#46
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Yeah this discrepency really needs to be cleared up. Either a master list of supension makes/models that quality for one or the other and/or a definitive price point.
Rules right now read:
For next year they have proposed to reduce that cost to $500 each corner. The lowest comparable cost I could find was on works and they charge $2500 for the Stage IIs. If this suspension is finally inside of the +7 group then its the one to have vs. the JIC / buddy clubs I origionally planned to get.
Lets hope the rules clear this up for next year.
Rules right now read:
1) Any monotube, gas-charged shocks with aluminum body construction, removable body caps, a replacement shaft, or
adjustment of any nature (preload or bleed) through the shaft; or, any shocks with an external reservoir or more than two
ranges of adjustment. Also, any shocks/Coilovers with a retail price of greater than $750 each +12
(springs and perches are open--0 pts.)
2) Non-OEM adjustable shocks/struts with threaded strut body “coilover conversion” for spring perch height adjustment +7
adjustment of any nature (preload or bleed) through the shaft; or, any shocks with an external reservoir or more than two
ranges of adjustment. Also, any shocks/Coilovers with a retail price of greater than $750 each +12
(springs and perches are open--0 pts.)
2) Non-OEM adjustable shocks/struts with threaded strut body “coilover conversion” for spring perch height adjustment +7
Lets hope the rules clear this up for next year.
Nov 19, 2006, 12:55 PM
#47
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Yes, but as the season progressed and they got the car sorted out, he got much quicker. At this point it's all bench racing. I'll be much faster at BR when I return too. 
Once the rules come out, I'll prep the car and do the best I can. I will be joining the the "trailer the car to the track" group next season, more for concerns of being able to drive the car home at the end of the weekend than anything else. I blew a licp hose at Putnam in October and wasn't sure how I would have gotten the car home had I not found a radiator hose fix while roaming the paddock.
Once the rules come out, I'll prep the car and do the best I can. I will be joining the the "trailer the car to the track" group next season, more for concerns of being able to drive the car home at the end of the weekend than anything else. I blew a licp hose at Putnam in October and wasn't sure how I would have gotten the car home had I not found a radiator hose fix while roaming the paddock.
Nov 19, 2006, 01:23 PM
#48
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Well, let me bench race a little. It's Winter, I'm longing for the track, and reality will come soon enough! At HPDEs I've gotten very confident-maybe over confident. My track ego probably needs a good smack down at this point 
Then, I can continue to learn and get faster and faster
Then, I can continue to learn and get faster and faster
Nov 19, 2006, 01:30 PM
#49
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There is a good chance that some of those crazy cars will get bumped into TTU. This entire dilemma is going to be a very interesting shakedown this winter. On another note, I run Buddy Club's (Muellerized), and they are DEFINITELY the 7 point option, and they have performed excellently. It is very frustrating to have to run with cars that you know you have little chance against. But if you are 3 seconds off what you can optimally do lap time wise with your car, that's a lot of room for improvement, on a positive note. Karting, as heeltoer will attest to, has improved my driving a Ton over the past year, and I believe I am within 1.5 seconds of what my car can do at my most driven track, thunderhill.
There is a lot of attention being given to this controversy, and as much as the finger seems to be pointed at us turbo people, it is also being pointed at some of the big displacement normally aspirated folks as well. I still think that things would not have been so bad if a few cars, like Patrick Lindsey’s obviously overpowered (for TTA at least, you better believe he will be in TTU next year) S4 and the AMS car crushing the competition. Another part of the equation is that you still have a lot of people in TT that are not very skilled, no matter what their level of equipment, and some of these folks are doing a lot of whining when they need to be improving the most vital ingredient in all of this: the driver.
There is a lot of attention being given to this controversy, and as much as the finger seems to be pointed at us turbo people, it is also being pointed at some of the big displacement normally aspirated folks as well. I still think that things would not have been so bad if a few cars, like Patrick Lindsey’s obviously overpowered (for TTA at least, you better believe he will be in TTU next year) S4 and the AMS car crushing the competition. Another part of the equation is that you still have a lot of people in TT that are not very skilled, no matter what their level of equipment, and some of these folks are doing a lot of whining when they need to be improving the most vital ingredient in all of this: the driver.
Originally Posted by 992gnt
No, not Z06's. A Mustang that short of going over 500whp somehow cannot move any higher than TTA (it belongs in TTU at least) - this is some sort of National class 'cap' for that particular year Mustang. It's a freaking full-on race car, and I will be digging into that one over the winter. He can do ANYTHING to the car for mods and stay in TTA. Doesn't seem quite fair does it? The other car I'm chasing in TTA is a very well ($$$$$$$) prepped M3. That car is way out of my league as far as money spent, and it is very fast. My only hope of keeping up with it is to move up to 285's, which ironically will likely knock me out of TTA. Both of those cars are running huge Hoosiers, come to the track on a trailer, and couldn't safely be driven on the street. That makes my evo the equivalent of a knife being brought to a gun fight. Both of those cars have lapped Mid Ohio under 1:40, and after having Jon K drive my car there we both agree with my current setup a PERFECT lap (new tires, perfect track, perfect driving) might get me into the low 1:41's or high 1:40's. Keep in mind also, the new TTA National champion ran in the 1:36's there in September.... 
I'll wait to see how the new rules shake out, but I've resigned myself to the fact I probably won't be winning any events this year unless those guys don't show up, or get bumped up. I don't have the money nor the desire to turn my Evo into a track only race car.
I'll wait to see how the new rules shake out, but I've resigned myself to the fact I probably won't be winning any events this year unless those guys don't show up, or get bumped up. I don't have the money nor the desire to turn my Evo into a track only race car.
Nov 19, 2006, 01:56 PM
#50
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Well said Percy. I am by no means at the peak of driving ability yet and there are a LOT of guys complaining that haven't even driven a TT event yet. My car has 3 more seconds in it at MO with new tires and a perfect lap, but I am giving up at least a second or two by running used r-compounds. Next year I'll have the advantage of new rubber thanks to some off-season deals, so hopefully I can live up to what the car will be capable of. It was a great learning year last year in which I wasn't expecting to win anything. Next year I hope the rules will allow me to have a chance to put a couple wins on my resume.
I do think that Pat's car along with the AMS car and a few others (a regional 'stock' motored TTU z06 that runs 1:32's at MO comes to mind) will be moved, making room for the rest of us that may not be competitive in class or will get bumped.
I do think that Pat's car along with the AMS car and a few others (a regional 'stock' motored TTU z06 that runs 1:32's at MO comes to mind) will be moved, making room for the rest of us that may not be competitive in class or will get bumped.
Nov 19, 2006, 02:33 PM
#52
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I hope I haven't seemed like I am complaining
My goal in joining NASA is to run with people faster than me at different tracks so I can get better.
I was at an open track day at Gingerman in August and left after half a day after laying waste to every one in the fast run group. I have no good point of reference to what fast is yet. The only car I haven't run away from at Gingerman and Grattan is a C5 ZO6 with internal engine mods on Hoosiers (and he couldn't lose me either!). At this point, it just seems that most people at HPDE's drive slowly, even in very fast well-equipped cars. I want more.
The time attack at Beaverun is my only competitive event to this point-where I only had a few warm-up laps before I had to run on only the third track I've ever been on). Since then I've gotten 2-3 seconds faster on my home track (car and driver).
I want competition badly and can't wait until I'm allowed to run with very fast (and faster) cars in TT-just hopefully not the AMS Evo in TTU
But if that is where I'm placed, I'll drive the **** out of my car anyway
One more thing: Go Blue
-we should get another shot at OSU at a neutral site, then we can send Bo off the right way 
My goal in joining NASA is to run with people faster than me at different tracks so I can get better.
I was at an open track day at Gingerman in August and left after half a day after laying waste to every one in the fast run group. I have no good point of reference to what fast is yet. The only car I haven't run away from at Gingerman and Grattan is a C5 ZO6 with internal engine mods on Hoosiers (and he couldn't lose me either!). At this point, it just seems that most people at HPDE's drive slowly, even in very fast well-equipped cars. I want more.
The time attack at Beaverun is my only competitive event to this point-where I only had a few warm-up laps before I had to run on only the third track I've ever been on). Since then I've gotten 2-3 seconds faster on my home track (car and driver).
I want competition badly and can't wait until I'm allowed to run with very fast (and faster) cars in TT-just hopefully not the AMS Evo in TTU
But if that is where I'm placed, I'll drive the **** out of my car anyway One more thing: Go Blue
-we should get another shot at OSU at a neutral site, then we can send Bo off the right way
Nov 19, 2006, 02:35 PM
#53
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Keep at it....it will be interesting to see how all of this shakes down. I'll do what I have to to stay in TTA. My goal next year is to win the norcal TTA title. the biggest thing I will be working on over the winter is better use of vision in the car, and keeping momentum. These are things that you can work on dynamically indoor Karting. Even though the weights of the cars are different, etc...you can train your brain to drive a line more precisely, look through the apex to the exit and to the next corner, etc....Just want to try and be as close to 100% as possible. Good luck to you both, Greg and Warr.
Nov 19, 2006, 03:16 PM
#54
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That comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular; there is way more complaining going on over on the NASA forum than there is here. The funny thing is, for all the attention we are getting there weren't very many Evo's in TT last year, and only a few at Nationals. Of those only one was dominating...
Nov 20, 2006, 02:36 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by johannes
Well, then I guess we both didn't pick the best model to start with. I guess we will just have to drive faster than the other guy 
Sounds fun to me
Sounds fun to me
Nov 20, 2006, 10:57 AM
#56
Originally Posted by Percywork
Another part of the equation is that you still have a lot of people in TT that are not very skilled, no matter what their level of equipment, and some of these folks are doing a lot of whining when they need to be improving the most vital ingredient in all of this: the driver.
Sep 4, 2007, 02:56 PM
#57
Yeah this discrepency really needs to be cleared up. Either a master list of supension makes/models that quality for one or the other and/or a definitive price point.
Rules right now read:
For next year they have proposed to reduce that cost to $500 each corner. The lowest comparable cost I could find was on works and they charge $2500 for the Stage IIs. If this suspension is finally inside of the +7 group then its the one to have vs. the JIC / buddy clubs I origionally planned to get.
Lets hope the rules clear this up for next year.
Rules right now read:
1) Any monotube, gas-charged shocks with aluminum body construction, removable body caps, a replacement shaft, or
adjustment of any nature (preload or bleed) through the shaft; or, any shocks with an external reservoir or more than two
ranges of adjustment. Also, any shocks/Coilovers with a retail price of greater than $750 each +12
(springs and perches are open--0 pts.)
2) Non-OEM adjustable shocks/struts with threaded strut body “coilover conversion” for spring perch height adjustment +7
adjustment of any nature (preload or bleed) through the shaft; or, any shocks with an external reservoir or more than two
ranges of adjustment. Also, any shocks/Coilovers with a retail price of greater than $750 each +12
(springs and perches are open--0 pts.)
2) Non-OEM adjustable shocks/struts with threaded strut body “coilover conversion” for spring perch height adjustment +7
Lets hope the rules clear this up for next year.
I'm considering getting into the NASA TT program as well. I have been reading over the points setup and was also confused on the suspension assessment. Also not sure how the overall $$ spent on suspension plays out (taxes; etc).
Could anyone comment on how this played out? I might plan some of my suspension around the point system.
Thanks.
