Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, I don't remember any understeer when riding with you.

I did induce understeer a few times at Sunday's auto-x - each time it was when I tried to hold my foot on the gas a split second longer and couldn't slow down in time.

992gnt

iTrader: (5)

My car rotates very nicely using the same techniques Emre mentioned (and a lot like the Audi in the video). Coilovers (big springs), rear sway bar, a specific alignment, and using both feet works for me. I do have a tendancy to go overboard though, especially at Mid Ohio - I love tossing the car sideways through the entire back half of the track. Slow? Yes. But man is it fun! I can't afford what that does to tires either!

meanmud

iTrader: (74)

Kyle,

how long has Paul/STaSIS been tuning those A4's?

It's about time they've become competitive

NikkaLB23

that was awesome.

Bimmubishi

iTrader: (3)

Exactly.

If my car understeered I'd probably be dead by now.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...nt+sport&hl=en

I'm a firm believer that a good alignment and a driver trained to understand the importance of brake application (especially left foot) can eliminate understeer in even a fwd car.

kingkyle

iTrader: (25)

Hey Paul!

Yes your car is very close to perfect, and the best i've seen or riden in. I still feel your driving was a big help when it came to getting the car around. You still had to "flick" the car... then your abilities came into play to get the car stable while drifting. Nothing against your setup... hell with just some ohlins, you have the best setup out there.

my questions is about corner exit push... i've yet to see an evo that can rotate like a RWD car. The STaSIS Audi is the only one i've seen so far.

This thread is directly applicable to the T2 race thread where the evo's are behind the STI... I think there ability to "rotate" is why they win. Just watching the race on TV it really shows.

i'm guessing relocating lots of weight to the rear of the evo... then working the diffs and adding plenty of toe out might be the trick. I just want the evo to exit corners like my lotus or ultima.... rotation on demand

Paul, are you still revalving shocks? i'm still interested in getting a set.

-Kyle

scorke

iTrader: (18)

That dsg video only helped me see the importance of a diagonal roll bar brace and the need for padding on it around the helmet area...

Scorke

kingkyle

iTrader: (25)

haha ditto...

Kayaalp

iTrader: (1)

With the ACD system, it should be "trivial" to tune the static front:rear bias. My friends that rally with Evo 5's and 6's back home have had their center diffs "tuned" to give them more rear drive. I don't know what's involved...but it shouldn't be much more difficult than tuning the lock-up of an LSD. Then again, they run RS models on the rally circuit, so maybe they have a different type of center diff (I'm hardly an expert on these things).

I suspect there just isn't enough demand amongst Evo drivers in the USA for anyone to offer such a service.

Emre

Tsurara

iTrader: (12)

Well just go out to any track and notice the number of Evos out there vs. the number of BMW/Subaru/Porsche, etc. Even when I do see an Evo at an event, I won't see them for the rest of the year.

The car is very capable but hardly anyone tracks these things!

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the explanation Kyle Looking at the Video I don't see a ton of rotation post apex more neutrality, He did have a lovely (but too big) slide of the triple Apex left. That actually slowed the car considerably (but I'm sure induced a large in helmet grin). I can do that in my car but I prefer to stay "scrub free" on the exit, something that I like to call "Zero Steer" which has the car in a very tidy four-wheel-drift off the corner with, as the name implies, the driver has no steering input in the car, it's just naturally turning because the rear is slipping just a tick more than the front which provides all the steering required. Of course the car is at full throttle through this phase.

It is all set-up as previous posters have accurately stated it's the careful application of trailbraking on the entry that sets this all up (mess that up and it simply won't work), there must be enough energy to rotate the car and point it at the apex for the Zero Steer phase can start.

Now from the cars stand point to rotate on the power regardless of the drivers skill set you are simply looking to get power to the outside wheels which means diffs that lock on acceleration. The outside loaded tire will have more grip and upon power delivery will rotate the car for you. That is assuming that the car has sufficient balance that is doesn't push. That is helped but many of the things Greg from GSC was suggesting. Just don't put more than a 1.5way in the rear or a 1way in the front of an EVO on tarmac (torsen is ok in the front as long as it has minimal to no decell locking) or you will increase entry understeer to a point that the car will have to be over slowed on turn-in just to get it into the corner (not that Greg even suggested that, just that most people think if a little is good then more must be better!).

The "other" cheesy cheap way to do it is to de-grip the rear, as many of you that recall the infamous trail braking thread, I am very much against this preferring to add front grip to balance the car (yes it is harder but well worth the effort). These "cheesy solutions" include very little rear camber, high rear pressures and rear toe out. They are only to be used as a last resort at the track when all other (grip increasing) solutions have been exhausted

Remember a truly fast corner from turn-in to exit is, above all, a combination of a well balanced car and a driver that understands what the car needs at any given point and is capable of supplying that "thing" at the right moment. The thing we all want to avoid is to set our cars up super loose so we don't have to learn to turn it ourselves. This is a very dangerous combination, think about it, an unskilled (usually stubborn yet unskilled) driver in a loose car. That is where I took odds with may other suspension "tuners" on the forum, I insist we all learn to drive our cars not try to work around that with dangerous set-ups.

off soap box!
hope this was worth reading!

Djazair

iTrader: (1)

Just to add my 2 cents to Paul's, I've seen poorly setup and poorly driven M3's that push a lot on corner exit and then snap into throttle oversteer.

Bimmubishi

iTrader: (3)

Scorke, what the hell are you talking about? The cage had just passed SCCA tech that morning. There is complete coverage with FIA padding on every potential contact area.

Then there's kingKyle on his website videos with no cage and no gloves laughing.. classic.

Sorry about the view of the diagonal. I didn't realize the camera angle was so bad. That wasn't the point anyway but leave it to you wise asses..

(smiley face)

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

PS. I subscribe to Paul's ideals and am trying to put them to use.

Tsurara

iTrader: (12)

Now you will never be a cameraman!