Audi Stage III vs. Evo RS
Feb 22, 2007, 06:35 AM
#16
key words there are "properly set up" and "almost anything".
on a good track surface a normally modified evo will not out run your $150k Porsche
a modified Audi, or even a well driven zo6. don't even begin to think it will play with the preped race cars.
but hexx, it is a ball to drive and offers pretty good stuff without breaking the bank.
on the other hand you can whip any car with a lame driver.
on a good track surface a normally modified evo will not out run your $150k Porsche
a modified Audi, or even a well driven zo6. don't even begin to think it will play with the preped race cars.
but hexx, it is a ball to drive and offers pretty good stuff without breaking the bank.
on the other hand you can whip any car with a lame driver.
Feb 22, 2007, 06:41 AM
#17
well,
i had an audi a4 with ko4/16 turbos, widebody oem rs4 panels, featured in the Jan 2005 issue of european car magazine, under my old company name autosporttuning.
that car made apprx 365-370whp on a mustang dyno, had 14" stoptechs, 19x9" wheels with 275's.... etc etc...
I made the move to the sti's and evo's and have never looked back. The EVO is much more of a precise track tool than the audi. I would consider the EVO to be a scapel while the audi is more of a hammer.... It had a big flat torque curve and good power, but the cars are just numb and not as responsive even with some of the best suspensions money can buy.
As far as straightline power, its going to take some mods on the evo to match the audi on the straights... but the cornering speeds will be significantly higher with the right setup.
I have seen 340whp/340wtq on our mustang dyno with bolt on's on pump with evo ix's.... and our dyno reads low (380whp for a 507crank hp bmw V10 M5)...
here is a pic of my old car...
cb
i had an audi a4 with ko4/16 turbos, widebody oem rs4 panels, featured in the Jan 2005 issue of european car magazine, under my old company name autosporttuning.
that car made apprx 365-370whp on a mustang dyno, had 14" stoptechs, 19x9" wheels with 275's.... etc etc...
I made the move to the sti's and evo's and have never looked back. The EVO is much more of a precise track tool than the audi. I would consider the EVO to be a scapel while the audi is more of a hammer.... It had a big flat torque curve and good power, but the cars are just numb and not as responsive even with some of the best suspensions money can buy.
As far as straightline power, its going to take some mods on the evo to match the audi on the straights... but the cornering speeds will be significantly higher with the right setup.
I have seen 340whp/340wtq on our mustang dyno with bolt on's on pump with evo ix's.... and our dyno reads low (380whp for a 507crank hp bmw V10 M5)...
here is a pic of my old car...
cb
Feb 22, 2007, 06:50 AM
#18
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If your DD is currently a B5 and your looking to DD a Rs, that's a HUGE difference in ride quality and comfort. Throw them both out the window with the Rs. Just remember that you will be manually rolling down the window. Oh, I've personally witnessed a bone stock IX Gsr run a B5 S4 with RS4 turbos chip but he had a stock exhaust. The IX pulled him until mid 5th gear. So power vs dollar wise, its no contest just as everyone else said. If you've never driven an Evo before, be fair on the testdrive. Don't let the responsiveness of the steering,handling and general race nature blanket the absolute Rawness of the ride and comfort.
Feb 22, 2007, 07:49 AM
#19
i had a b5 also. Here are some things. S4 is a pig. 3700lbs or so. You are going to kill pads and tires. S4 has open diffs. Evo limited slip. Evo 350whp for 2k. Off the shelf awe turbo kit for S4 8k. 355-365 whp. Again hundres of pounds heavier. S4 has a tendency to push hard. The evo has way more balance. S4 parts, something breaks its very expensive even on small parts. All in all for 10k into a evo you will have something that will destroy even a stg 3 s4 on a track. For the s you cant even get the turbo kit and installation. Then add downpipes(1400), exhaust(800), and installation(1400). thats a stage 3 with no suspension, no brakes, no clutch. You get the point.
I have a evo ix now and wont look back. Its if your willing to dump the luxury for a raw driving car. DO IT DO IT
I have a evo ix now and wont look back. Its if your willing to dump the luxury for a raw driving car. DO IT DO IT
Feb 22, 2007, 07:55 AM
#20
the stage 3 kit is upgraded k04 turbo's and all the bolt on's. i have a friend with that awe set up, custom tuned with a 75 shot and he's trapped 122 running very low 11's on STOCK suspension.
the only thing the audi has on my evo is comfort. if ur not on the gas in his car you cant even tell its modded. it drives and feels stock. you will never get that feeling from a evo. if comfort is not important to you. for 1000$ on the ix you'll run 11's, tbe, mbc, tune and racegas/meth kit
cheers!
the only thing the audi has on my evo is comfort. if ur not on the gas in his car you cant even tell its modded. it drives and feels stock. you will never get that feeling from a evo. if comfort is not important to you. for 1000$ on the ix you'll run 11's, tbe, mbc, tune and racegas/meth kit
cheers!
Feb 22, 2007, 08:09 AM
#21
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Yeah, it just depends on what you want. The cars are almost too different to be compared side-by-side. Having owned two AWD Audis (both A4's), and having spent some time in a tastefully-modded EVO (that of a fellow poster here), I would say the Audi is the more comfortable car to drive. The engines (specifically the 1.8t and now 2.0t) are extremely strong and will support a lot of HP (375+) on stock internals. Getting to that level, however, is pretty expensive...$6-7k.
The B5 S4 is similar in "cost to upgrade", just higher.
The EVO is very quick out of the box and, with $6-7k, can make WAY more than 375 HP...but, in my opinion, it's not as comfortable day-to-day as the A4/S4.
If you want a comfortable 4-door family hauler that you can mod, Audi is tough to beat. If want a performace car that can make a ton of power, blow Audis off the line, and can track with aplomb, it's EVO all the way.
To the original poster, it sounds like you're wanting performance and trackability a little more than comfort and everyday driveability. Take it from an Audi owner...get an EVO.
Regards,
Joel
The B5 S4 is similar in "cost to upgrade", just higher.
The EVO is very quick out of the box and, with $6-7k, can make WAY more than 375 HP...but, in my opinion, it's not as comfortable day-to-day as the A4/S4.
If you want a comfortable 4-door family hauler that you can mod, Audi is tough to beat. If want a performace car that can make a ton of power, blow Audis off the line, and can track with aplomb, it's EVO all the way.
To the original poster, it sounds like you're wanting performance and trackability a little more than comfort and everyday driveability. Take it from an Audi owner...get an EVO.
Regards,
Joel
Feb 22, 2007, 03:10 PM
#22
The Audi makes for a great daily driver, but not nearly as good on the track as the RS. The reason is simple, basically another 500 lbs!
That's 500lbs extra that you have to accelerate, brake, and turn. All that means, more power is needed, more tire is needed, and more brake is needed to make it as fast as the RS. That's more of everything which usually means more money and more stuff to wear out/break which in turn makes it less reliable.
One of my buddies has a S4 wagon; i'm just glad I don't have to work in that engine bay!
That's 500lbs extra that you have to accelerate, brake, and turn. All that means, more power is needed, more tire is needed, and more brake is needed to make it as fast as the RS. That's more of everything which usually means more money and more stuff to wear out/break which in turn makes it less reliable.
One of my buddies has a S4 wagon; i'm just glad I don't have to work in that engine bay!
Feb 22, 2007, 05:20 PM
#25
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I agree, the B5 S4 brakes suck big time. It's damn near impossible to heal/toe in the car.
Having both cars (and a very understanding wife) the S4 is just too expensive to track. It's much harder on brakes and tires, plus (as you know) the maintenance is a major PITA on a good day.
Bottom line: the track/autox day dollar goes much further with the Evo.
Having both cars (and a very understanding wife) the S4 is just too expensive to track. It's much harder on brakes and tires, plus (as you know) the maintenance is a major PITA on a good day.
Bottom line: the track/autox day dollar goes much further with the Evo.
Feb 22, 2007, 05:39 PM
#27
I know this may not seem pertinent, but really, there is NO way an evo with suspension mods and a few power mods is going to out run a lot of track type cars.
I love my evo and pound the heck out of it on the track, but I do not pass every car out there...... I can pass a lot more of them when the track is WET.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nothere
key words there are "properly set up" and "almost anything".
on a good track surface a normally modified evo will not out run your $150k Porsche
a modified Audi, or even a well driven zo6. don't even begin to think it will play with the preped race cars.
but hexx, it is a ball to drive and offers pretty good stuff without breaking the bank.
on the other hand you can whip any car with a lame driver.
to which CAD EVO responded
Why bother tracking it if its not "properly set-up"? I think any car robi brings to the track is properly set-up, and honestly I would tend to believe he is a bit more credible when talking about track performance. Your saying the evo will only out perform other cars on a rough surface? rubish.
__________________
"
I love my evo and pound the heck out of it on the track, but I do not pass every car out there...... I can pass a lot more of them when the track is WET.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nothere
key words there are "properly set up" and "almost anything".
on a good track surface a normally modified evo will not out run your $150k Porsche
a modified Audi, or even a well driven zo6. don't even begin to think it will play with the preped race cars.
but hexx, it is a ball to drive and offers pretty good stuff without breaking the bank.
on the other hand you can whip any car with a lame driver.
to which CAD EVO responded
Why bother tracking it if its not "properly set-up"? I think any car robi brings to the track is properly set-up, and honestly I would tend to believe he is a bit more credible when talking about track performance. Your saying the evo will only out perform other cars on a rough surface? rubish.
__________________
"
Feb 23, 2007, 08:42 AM
#30
I instruct with the Audi Club of North America, so I have a fair bit of experience with how Audis do on the track. While a modded S4 might be fast as hell on the street, that doesn't really translate into "fast on the track." They're very heavy cars. The suspension really leans VERY heavily towards understeer. The brakes overcook easily. Overall, they're rather sluggish.
On top of that, they all have that typically wooden VAG steering feel and overboosted brakes. That makes them tough to balance on the limit. Nowhere near the chassis feel and cornering balance of an Evo. With just an alignment and a rear swaybar, the Evo is incredibly easy to control at the limit. That lets you push harder and with more confidence. And that's what makes you quick.
Finally, every single modded S4 I've seen on the track seems to have reliability issues. There's this one guy who's an MTM rep and has a fully tricked out S4. I have yet to see him complete a single session without pulling into the pits to fix something. And for all his trouble, he still gets passed by guys like me (in my 300WHP '03 Evo, running street tires). So what's the point?
Emre
On top of that, they all have that typically wooden VAG steering feel and overboosted brakes. That makes them tough to balance on the limit. Nowhere near the chassis feel and cornering balance of an Evo. With just an alignment and a rear swaybar, the Evo is incredibly easy to control at the limit. That lets you push harder and with more confidence. And that's what makes you quick.
Finally, every single modded S4 I've seen on the track seems to have reliability issues. There's this one guy who's an MTM rep and has a fully tricked out S4. I have yet to see him complete a single session without pulling into the pits to fix something. And for all his trouble, he still gets passed by guys like me (in my 300WHP '03 Evo, running street tires). So what's the point?
Emre
Last edited by Kayaalp; Feb 23, 2007 at 10:49 AM. Reason: typos fixed