evoatcha

iTrader: (1)

It has been my experience that the event masters (who basically supervise the instructors) take student feedback very seriously. They will meet privately with the student and the instructor and assign a new instructor if needed. I don't think there's ever a need to "trend" someone's file. The event master usually knows all the instructors personally and has seen them instruct at other events. Occasionally guest instructors are included, but they need to provide a written recommendation from another club's event master or senior instructor to be allowed into the instructor group.

One does not become an instructor overnight. The Audi Club in particular runs a very vigorous instructor development program. Here's what you will need to do to become an instructor (at least with Glacier Lakes Audi in Minnesota): After a few successful schools as a novice and intermediate student, you can apply and maybe get accepted into an instructor development event where you take classes specifically for instructors, get quizzed face-to-face by a three member panel on your knowledge of vehicle dynamics, safety, car control, and instruction scenarios. Then you will be put in the right seat of experienced instructors' cars for role play sessions where they pretend to be novice and intermediate students, and you have to instruct them as best you can while they drive all over the track and pull some of the crazy crap students do. After that, a senior instructor will jump in the right seat of your car and have you demonstrate technique on track: "Show me two very smooth laps following your racing line...early apex this corner then correct it as best you can...give me trailing throttle oversteer here...induce understeer in Seven...trail brake in Eight" and it goes on and on. At the end of the weekend you might be lucky enough to become a novice instructor, or they might ask you to attend a few more events first.

We take these events very seriously. When you're on track, you're basically holding other people's lives in your hands. Going full throttle into Turn One at Brainerd at 135mph (in my RSX - the M5s and GT3s are more like 150), I need to know I can trust the drivers around me to behave in a safe and considerate manner. My life depends on it, and their lives depend on me. I have seen (guest)instructors and students kicked out on the spot for bad behavior on track. I have kicked people out of my speed events at airports and hillclimbs. If somebody "just doesn't get it" he is putting everybody else in danger and needs to be removed immediately.

That said, we also have a lot of fun. Many of my fellow instructors have become dear friends and I have the time of my life running tracks with them.

And yes, thanks for the congrats. I bought the Evo and sold my RSX last fall. The Evo will see its first official track time next month at Mid-America Motorplex in Iowa where I'll be instructing with the Audi Club. Motor on.

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

If you club driving guys think that the instructors I have at Russell are of comparable quality to the brand XX club instructor guys you are sorely mistaken. A slow Russell guy would be seconds faster than a top club level instructor and much more able to communicate with and work through all the different learning and driving styles. They are professional instructors not amateur hobbyists (big difference, no matter how well meaning the amateurs are).

It does cost more but you get what you pay for...

Kayaalp

iTrader: (1)

That all depends on the club. We have several guys who work with our chapter who also instruct for some "big name" commercial race schools. And almost all of our instructors race in some series or another. You can see some of them on Speed World Challenge, for example. Just because someone chooses to volunteer their time to instruct with a non-profit car club, that doesn't mean they are nothing but "well meaning amateurs."

Having said that, most car clubs focus on street driving. Though the BMW CCA, PCA, NASA, and others do run successful race series, their driving schools are primarily geared towards street drivers. For most people (who haven't grown up racing karts or quarter midgets), it's probably still a good idea to learn the basics of high-performance driving over the course of a few weekends with a good car club before investing the time and money for a commercial race school. You'll get more for your money if you already know the basics.

Emre

evoatcha

iTrader: (1)

I never said anything bad about the "expensive" school instructors, and I've never gotten into a Russel/Skippy instructor vs. Audi/BMW instructor debate. Jim Pace and his crew did an excellent job at the Skip Barber Formula Dodge three-day program at Road America when I took it in 2004. My main criticisms of that program were the underpowered cars and limited amount of track time.

However I will take issue with your fast driver=good instructor argument. The skills that make a driver fast have NOTHING to do with the skills that make someone a good teacher. Driving well requires superb eye-hand-foot coordination, an accute sense of balance and inner ear sensitivity, and extensive experience with vehicle dynamics. Teaching well requires excellent communication skills (speaking, listening, and non-verbal), the ability to organize a bunch of random facts into a cohesive, logical, learnable framework, and a huge amount of empathy for students.

I have met dozens of very fast drivers who would suck at teaching because they don't have the personality or people skills for it. I have also been surprised to be passing guys on track who I know to be excellent instructors driving faster cars than mine. Of course you do find great drivers who are also wonderful teachers, and that's fantastic. And of course every instructor has to know what he or she is talking about, and experience is the best teacher. But a thousand hours of track time will not turn a bad teacher into a good one, and winning races does not make you better in front of a classroom, even if it does give you a certain cachet with the fans.

redvolution

iTrader: (3)

With all due respect to Paul, I'd recommend October over November for Sears if you want to avoid rain. I've lived in the bay area from 1999-2003 and again from 2005-now. Rain occasionally happens in Nov but never happens in Oct.

Richard EVO

That's what I was thinking. May might be nice too.

heeltoer

Paul,
As someone who is driving in the 2007 Formula Russell can you tell us if these new cars will be used for this years championship? I have driven both the techniques cars and raced in the ARC cars and I can't stand the shifter.

Back on topic: As someone who has taken pretty much all of the Jim Russell classes, including kart classes, raced and won 06 Kart A&R champ, the TRC the ARC and the graduate runoffs, I can say that Jim Russell really has the best instructors. I would know, I instruct with a bunch track organizations( NASA, TMR, HOD) and I have been able to take techniques from my russell classes back to my own track instructing. Highly recommended.

redvolution

iTrader: (3)

No wonder you're grabbing TTB track records right and left!

vitoal18t

I would lean towards Infineon because of the track configuration. I did several events and never got a chance to drive Laguna, people keep talking about how hard and scary the track is, especially turn 8, this January I got a chance to drive at Laguna Seca this January and realized it's "not that bad".

When I took my EVO for the first time to Infineon I was blown away, I did Jim Russel Test Drive there and several NASA HPDEs in smaller FWD cars, but I realized that the track is very challenging in a higher powered car. It seems like at Infineon the car is always turning somewhere, going straight w/ pedal to the floor doesn't take much skill that is why I think Infineon is a better track to learn at.

Yes being on a track w/ 15 accountants really blows, but you can still learn a lot and in my opinion pro school like JRRS is worth the money.

In my opinon difficulty w/ most schools is abundance of yahoos, on the bright side they do pump a lot of money into this hobby and keep it alive, we just have to live w/ it.

This weekend at HPDE 3 there was a younger gentelmen driving 993 Porsche Supercup, half the class whined and complained how he was passing them and "stealing" their apex. The guy passed me several times just before the apex, I thought he was great, awesome car good driving. Watch your mirrors, when a preped 993 on DOT slicks approaching fast, just leave him some room and let him go. Too many guys in HPDE 3 w/ HPDE 1 attitude.

evoatcha

iTrader: (1)

As I'm sure you know, the key to safety AND fun at HPDE is for everyone to follow the same rules for their run group. If that particular group 3 allowed passing in the corners, then those whiners should shut up and drive better. If the 993 driver was breaking the rules then he needs a good talking to, I don't care how fast he is. After he understands and agrees to abide by the rules, then I might consider moving him to a faster group. I have seen dozens of red faces and several scary near misses simply because someone wasn't following the rules. When driving in a non-competitive event, people need to remember that it's not all about them and they need to relax and learn how to share.

vitoal18t

I forgot to mention that it was open track! Passing on turns was allowed. I guess what people didn't realize is how fast a prepped 993 will close in on a street Audi, SRT-4 or even EVO .

I was really glad when instructor told those people to stop whining because learning passing is very important aspect of track events.

I am all for safety and common sense, and I just want to make a point that I think it makes a huge difference if instructor is ex or current racer. Race drivers seem to be tough and reasonable. I think that in Russel Racing school all instructors are race drivers.

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

This is an old bad argument that is put forth by mediocre driving instructors who teach in a mediocre environment (that therefore makes them look relatively good).

Trust me, if you want to be the best you can be you want someone capable of doing it themselves. To make this easy to understand I'll put it this way: If you went to a pro race and entered after a few years of practice you end up in let's say 20th on the grid, you hire a good club instructor (heck the best) you'd end up working your way to 13-14th place and at that point the worlds best club guy is done, he can't get you any further up the grid why? because HE can't go up any further. That final "second" (off pole time) if you have the time, ability and patience to find within yourself will take instruction from someone that actually understands the amazing subtly of that final second and how to DEMONSTRATE and communicate it to the driver.

In the club world because they race against each other they don't even know that final second exists because none have the keys to accessing it (ignorance is bliss?).

You just have to ask yourself what you're going to be satisfied with, how ultimately fast do you want/need to be? "club" fast or real fast?

As far as the race series, we will have our announcements about the school, race series and MTP after the June 1 re-launch, it will be big...

evoatcha

iTrader: (1)

I’m gonna take the high road after that shot and say that I'm sure JR instructors are race-winning drivers and ALSO good teachers. The only point I’m trying to make here is that great race drivers do not automatically make great teachers.

If you give me the choice between two supposedly good teachers, one who has won many professional races and one who just does a dozen track days a year, I would definitely pick the race winner. But if he turns out to be a crappy teacher I won’t learn much from him, so it really doesn’t matter to me how many races he’s won because he can’t teach.

And yes of course, just as you wouldn't hire a grade school math teacher to teach graduate level calculus, as a driver works his way up the racing food chain he should continually seek advice from more highly skilled and more winning drivers.

Thank you for proving my point with this sentence. The instructor needs to know how to do it AND how to demonstrate and communicate it. Yes, he needs to be a good teacher too.

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, it was not meant as a direct shot so thanks for not taking it personally (it was not intended as such)

I have just heard that for years and agree with it but don't like how it's often used for an excuse for a bad driving instructor. There are people who can drive great and talk great (you don't have to choose one or the other), people need to know that there is more if people want to seek it out. I learn every day out on the track because I am blessed with very talented guys who work for and with me. That of course is relative and happens within any club or racing school, the point being a school or club is only as good as its instructors, that will limit how good every one in the environment is.

evoatcha

iTrader: (1)

You are a lucky man indeed if you get to be on the track every day. Most of us can only dream of such a life. Motor on.